2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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Farnborough
Farnborough
103
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:15 pm

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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"Fallows is suggesting it's aero issue, atleast that's what I got out of the article" is verified by most of the other teams perspective that its this causing a root problem.

Specific in that they all seem to agree, that there's need to get as close to porpoiseing, without stepping over that threshold, as that's where the most productive load is available.

Aero instability, in that area, ultimately makes an uncontrollable platform. Skewing the suspension design in attempt to control that region of uncertainty ultimately takes the whole ensemble down a rabbit hole. Eventually, "they can't see their arse from their elbow" to put it colloquially :D MB is equally lost, and difficult to separate in observable analysis as they do share significant architecture in design, also some level of facility for infrastructure.

It's this that RB and Ferrari first figured out in 2022, plus McL now. All have moved away from optimum at some points, but now appear to be converging. AMR had that successful period but lost the thread in chasing more load it appears.

selvam_e2002
selvam_e2002
0
Joined: Mon Oct 22, 2018 9:52 am

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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I hope this team bounce back quickly for 2025 and want to see repeat of 2012 however this time Alonso wins.

collindsilva
collindsilva
1
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:37 pm

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

Post

Farnborough wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:19 am
"Fallows is suggesting it's aero issue, atleast that's what I got out of the article" is verified by most of the other teams perspective that its this causing a root problem.

Specific in that they all seem to agree, that there's need to get as close to porpoiseing, without stepping over that threshold, as that's where the most productive load is available.

Aero instability, in that area, ultimately makes an uncontrollable platform. Skewing the suspension design in attempt to control that region of uncertainty ultimately takes the whole ensemble down a rabbit hole. Eventually, "they can't see their arse from their elbow" to put it colloquially :D MB is equally lost, and difficult to separate in observable analysis as they do share significant architecture in design, also some level of facility for infrastructure.

It's this that RB and Ferrari first figured out in 2022, plus McL now. All have moved away from optimum at some points, but now appear to be converging. AMR had that successful period but lost the thread in chasing more load it appears.
But Williams who uses the merc suspension (previous year) has done good progress, seemingly, AMR 24 was better at the end of last year, is merc changing the suspension again for the next year or can AMR revert to previous spec for 2025..

Farnborough
Farnborough
103
Joined: Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:15 pm

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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It offers intrigue certainly as last year 2023, to my knowledge, all three of these team used the same MB transmission and rear suspension architecture along with that. McL being the exception in building their own design.

Pertinent in the AMR thread as it potential gives perspective here, but Williams for a number of years seems to follow the route of "lightest" download in aero platform, along with targeting lower drag to leverage their selves into more competitive order when tracks favour this attribute set.

They may not be a accurate "thermostat " against MB & AMR in this regard, quite possibly staying out of the absolute maximum downforce arena by intention.

They do appear to be evolving cafefully their own philosophy though, but in contrast to these two AMR & MB.

Upshot is, that it's hard to judge in absolute terms here.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-f ... /10671997/
Ferrari team principal Fred Vasseur believes some teams may be tempted to write off next year to gain extra wind tunnel time for 2026
If Aston Martin does this, good luck to the others :lol:
A lion must kill its prey.

Waz
Waz
1
Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2024 8:29 am

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

Post

Farnborough wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2024 8:19 am
"Fallows is suggesting it's aero issue, atleast that's what I got out of the article" is verified by most of the other teams perspective that its this causing a root problem.

Specific in that they all seem to agree, that there's need to get as close to porpoiseing, without stepping over that threshold, as that's where the most productive load is available.

Aero instability, in that area, ultimately makes an uncontrollable platform. Skewing the suspension design in attempt to control that region of uncertainty ultimately takes the whole ensemble down a rabbit hole. Eventually, "they can't see their arse from their elbow" to put it colloquially :D MB is equally lost, and difficult to separate in observable analysis as they do share significant architecture in design, also some level of facility for infrastructure.

It's this that RB and Ferrari first figured out in 2022, plus McL now. All have moved away from optimum at some points, but now appear to be converging. AMR had that successful period but lost the thread in chasing more load it appears.
That's some careful deflection. With a strong suspension set up that can absorb the porpoise effect and maintain ride stability, the ceiling of usable downforce is higher.

There were suggestions that Red Bull were using an additional hydraulic fluid reservoir in the suspension in an unusual manner. This was supposedly removed after Miami.

Mercedes had a front suspension upgrade around Monaco that supposedly included an oversize damper.

Unsure if Mercedes are still using it, but there was a definite uptick in stability and performance around the time of the bulge on the nose cone.

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diffuser
236
Joined: Fri Sep 07, 2012 12:55 pm
Location: Montreal

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Mon Nov 11, 2024 3:12 pm
https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/why-f ... /10671997/
Ferrari team principal Fred Vasseur believes some teams may be tempted to write off next year to gain extra wind tunnel time for 2026
If Aston Martin does this, good luck to the others :lol:
It's just something that happens all the time when regs change, not at all surprised.

Newey starts March 1? They'll run R&D on AMR25 till March 15th....upgrades through to the Canada GP in June.

collindsilva
collindsilva
1
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 2:37 pm

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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The wind tunnel allowance should be reset during the new regulations, all should have 100% allocations, this will have a level playing field and would make the next season more interesting.

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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It looks like the jig is up for Dan Fallows...
A lion must kill its prey.

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organic
1056
Joined: Sat Jan 08, 2022 1:24 am
Location: Cambridge, UK

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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Fallows time as TD is over. Donadoni of Formu1a.uno also claims there will be/have been other departures from technical positions within AMR (unless I'm mistaken)




SSJ4
SSJ4
25
Joined: Tue Jul 04, 2023 10:59 pm

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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Understandable with cardille and newey coming. Glad they didn’t get rid of him fully. Thinks he’s still capable. Just not as a TD

Nikosar
Nikosar
0
Joined: Wed Apr 10, 2024 5:06 pm

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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He quoted in the team announcement article : "It is time for me to pass on the baton, but I look forward to watching the team's future success, which I am sure will come soon."

I wonder who will replace him? at least for 2025*

AR3-GP
AR3-GP
365
Joined: Tue Jul 06, 2021 12:22 am

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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It is said he will "remain with the group", but the official statements make it sound like he won't have anything to do with the F1 team anymore.

Image
A lion must kill its prey.

KimiRai
KimiRai
258
Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2022 7:08 pm

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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AR3-GP wrote:
Tue Nov 12, 2024 1:53 pm
It is said he will "remain with the group", but the official statements make it sound like he won't have anything to do with the F1 team anymore.

https://i.postimg.cc/3x7XkGxG/image.png
Andrew Green-ed?

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lio007
316
Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2013 10:03 pm
Location: Austria

Re: 2024 Aston Martin | Aramco F1 Team

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Mike Elliot incoming?