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Question:

Is it possible/feasible to change the gearbox operation from seamless to non-seamless mid race by changing software modes?


Two guys on another forum said their commentators (in different countries) said RBR only used the seamless gearbox for the first stint in the race in spain. I'm not even sure if its possible.

I don't know, but

I did read it somewhere that for the first races, BMW ran their version of the seamless gearbox in a "safe" mode, whatever it is. So perhaps, if the shift is performed (I have to assume by the means of software) so that the power is cut from the wheels for a certain amount of time, a seamless gearbox can be "virtually non-seamless". What advantage this operation would carry in terms of reliability I haven't even begun to consider. DC did limp over the line to finish 5th with only gears 4 to 7 though, so perhaps there's something to it.

checkered wrote: DC did limp over the line to finish 5th with only gears 4 to 7 though, so perhaps there's something to it.

He had no 3rd gear, but the box did jump from 4th to 2nd and visa versa a couple of times exiting the final chicane (so said the tv telemetry anyway)

He had no 3rd gear, but the box did jump from 4th to 2nd and visa versa a couple of times exiting the final chicane (so said the tv telemetry anyway)

Was it on that one lap when he lost a lot of time? I didn't notice ... for the final laps he was pretty close to being on the pace for all his problems, though.

A while ago in F1racing, Honda said over a race distance a seamless shift box was capable of shaving 30seconds of a race time

And thats a hell of alot. In Monaco it could show, though a small track, it has alot of gear shifts.

Yes DC switched over to the mechanical gearbox from the seamless. He did lose 3rd gear near the end of the race and he described the switchover as dramatic because the old setup you could feel the change of the gears because of the lost of power between the shifts. Marc Webber and Tonio Luzzi both had problems with there Seamless Gearbox so it looks like they are having lots of problems with there transmission. You can clearly tell this is the work of Adrian Newey as he is scarificing reliability for more speed.

With the modern gearboxes you can't 'skip' a gear, you must crunch through it.

I have also heard (on a podcast) that RBR ran it without the seamless operation during the race.

Obviously, Red Bull/STR are having teething problems with their new seamless transmission. But just as obvious, they are presently willing to build a fragile, yet quick car and develop reliability.
THe new Newey car will reach it's full potential next year, 2007 is for development.

Right, so, does anyone know how a seamless gearbox works? Is it like the audi DSG gearbox, or something else?

And how do the mechanics work when switching from seamless to normal operations?

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If both sets of engagement dogs on a Zero Shift ,or seamless , gearbox can be moved to a neutral position simultaneously, then a normal gear change can performed with (brief) pause between power transmission. If the gear changes work through linear actuators, then it shouldn't be too hard to program an overlapped pause into their controller. However, if the gearbox uses a rotary drum selector (like on a sequential motorcycle box) then implementing an overlap / pause would require different grooves on the selector drum i.e. a hard ware change. I'm not sure whether the sequential nature of an F1 box is because they use a selector drum, or because the paddles used to shift gear make it difficult to implement a "skipped' gear change with software.

I can be wrong, but I think it's the first time in modern F1 history that a new gearbox (even classic one) is introduced in race after a 3 day test only!!
It is surprising how optimist they are! (and less surprising how easily it failed...)

vyselegend wrote:It is surprising how optimist they are! (and less surprising how easily it failed...)

Well - with the improvement in simulation technology today, the difference between in house testing and on track testing is continually getting narrower and narrower.


Probably a large reason why reliability records are better than ever (sunday was a bit of a freak I'll admit).