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Why hasn't anybody built a V-4 and why

1960's Saab V4:



Edit: It was actually a Ford design, also used in the european Ford Taunus of the late 60's and early 70's.

I am not an engineer, but I guess because it's much complex then in-line engine, so I gues the weight is smaller in a in-line engine.

A v4 for F1? NO point - you have a fair bit of room and an IL4 design will do just as well...

CMSMJ1 wrote:A v4 for F1? NO point - you have a fair bit of room and an IL4 design will do just as well...

I think the V4 Ford had a counter shaft.
Not very promising.

Shrek wrote:Why hasn't anybody built a V-4 and why

All Subarus rally engines are flat-4
Thats a V at 180°

Belatti wrote:

Shrek wrote:Why hasn't anybody built a V-4 and why

All Subarus rally engines are flat-4
Thats a V at 180°

Flat four boxer Subaru is great engine.
I helped a friend put one in an autogyro.
It should replace all old fashioned current light aero engines, a brilliant design.
Guess what, Subaru do not want to get involved in aircraft.

motoGP also uses v4 and v5, I think!

tarzoon wrote:motoGP also uses v4 and v5, I think!

I believe that one reason for the v4 and v5 in Moto GP is to balance the torque output from the engine to result in a more even torque to the rear wheel.
They also play with strange breathing and firing sequences.
Of course it would be easier to use my ESERU type gearbox, which would give constantly variable shift overlap, no clutch and a better torque transfer.
Unfortunately bikes have yet to get away from the macho foot gear lever and change the control ergonomics over to match the available electronic control technology.
I reckon at least three seconds a lap gain on average but then the Japs killed the Norton Rotary so what the hell.

An inline 4 canted to 30 degreees would be better for height and weight. The block is narrower.

Again, sounds like the GRE concept.

@Shrek - You have a good knack for asking questions that make us think

Form WIKI

Automobile use

Lancia produced several narrow-angle V4 engines from the 1920s through 1960s for cars like the Lambda, Augusta, Artena, Aprilia, Ardea, Appia, and Fulvia. These were a predecessor for Volkswagen's VR6 family.
Ford of Europe produced two totally different V4 engines with a balance shaft, one in the UK and one in Germany:
The British Ford Essex V4 engine
The German Ford Taunus V4 engine (also used by Saab)
Saab featured the Ford 1,500 cc (92 cu in) OHV V4 engine in their 95, 96 and Sonett models, producing 65 bhp (48 kW) and 85 lb·ft (115 N·m) of torque.
The Ukrainian manufacturer ZAZ also used air cooled V4s with a balance shaft, produced by MeMZ and used in Zaporozhets cars.
[edit]Motorcycle use

V4 engines are mostly found nowadays in motorcycles, including:
Ducati Desmosedici
Honda RC212V
Honda VF and VFR
Honda Magna
Honda ST series (Pan European)
Honda NR
Suzuki Madura
Yamaha V-Max
Yamaha YZR500
Aprilia RSV 4
[edit]Other uses

Another use of the V4 engine is in outboard motors. They are two stroke cycle and generally carbureted. Some of the largest manufacturers are Johnson, Evinrude and Yamaha. This type of engine is popular because of its small size, while still producing 140 hp (104 kW), or more.

I have a V4 motor in my motorbikes.

It is a 360 degree crank 90 V4.

Firing in a big bang order

bang-bang-miss-miss-bang-bang-miss-miss repeat ad infinitum!

It sounds lovely, goes very well and for a 400cc motor puts out nearly 65bhp!

I love my bike and the V4 is the law IMO.

I have ridden IL4 bikes and they are high revving and soul free things. The V4 is special.

CHSMJI I assume ypou have the little VFR jewel.

In motorcycles the advantage of a V4 over a straight 4 (across the frame) is the reduced width. A problem though is the length (if you stick with 90 degree angle which is inherently well balanced).

Honda are about to release their new 1200cc V4 which is expected to be the start of a gradual switch to V4 engines by them. To overcome the length problem they have the v angle at 72° but the crank has staggered journals so the connecting rods are 18° apart (there are just 2 crank journals (one each for left & right side) so the pistons reach TDC 90° apart & the intrinsic balance is retained but the engine is more compact.

Here there is an excellent discussion on this balancing topic
http://www.xs650.org.au/smoothness.htm

Why? Simple: it's all in the firing order and the number of crankshaft bearings.

A V-4 is an engine hard to balance and has few bearings. You can only have three bearings: one bearing at each end of the crankshaft and one in the middle, between the "pairs" of pistons. That's a poor configuration for high rpm: it doesn't last.

A V-8 is better balanced and has five bearings: it lasts a lot.

Simplifying the "balance" thing: in a V-8 (or even in a V-6) you have more impulses (from each piston) and every impulse has less power, compared with a V-4. You have several firing orders you can choose from, to try to balance the impulse of a piston firing with the impulses of other pistons in compression, admision or exhaust.

Most V-4 and inline 4s must have an axle with counterweights that balances the vibration caused by the pistons firing. You don't (normally) need that kind of tricks to balance the vibrations in a V-8: you can do it with the pistons themselves. In some old V-6s and V-4s, without a balancing axle, you get nasty harmonic vibrations at certain engine speeds (altough CMSMJ1 seems to like the sound, it's not nice to my ears: you can hear the engine suffering, if you "become" the bearing, zen style! Of course, I can understand your point: when you feel the 65 Hp under your butt, you forget about balancing, but...).

You also have up to five positions for crankshaft bearings in a V-8. Ergo, you can have an engine that you can take to higher RPMs: the crankshaft has a better "support" and the loads are distributed in a better way.

That explains why V-8 engines are so popular: you have several alternatives in the firing order so the running is very smooth and you can have a larger number of bearings, so each one is under less stress.

Inline sixes can also have many crankshaft bearings, that explains why they are a favorite for engine diesels.

I quote: "When designing an engine, choosing an appropriate firing order is critical to minimizing vibration and achieving smooth running, for long engine fatigue life and user comfort, and heavily influences crankshaft design."

For example, in the movie Cars, the neon lights of Flo's V8 Cafe fire in the firing order of a Ford Flathead V-8: americans seem to be really proud of that (or animators in that movie are a curious lot).

See the lights on top of the roofs, left and right? They have a partial answer to your question...


So, if you have to choose between two cars with the same HP and displacement, choose the one with more pistons (generally). Its engine will last more (or you can take it to higher RPM, if you wish to tune it).

In short: be the bearing, little grasshopper. Ooooommmmmmmmm.....

The VW bug had a a flat 4 engine. They produced more than 20 million of this design which must be a record for a single car engine.

I believe the VW bug has sold more cars than any other they were making it up till 02. If I remember right second place isn't even close

I have see people taking small block chevy V8s and cutting them in half for Short course buggies.


But to answer the question an I4 is a much better configuration for a 4 cyl engine. Its much less complex and cheaper to build. Its most of the time easier to package.