F1technical.net

Or perhaps the other way around...anyway, it seems to be a done deal for the next Saab generation. Sad really.

Sad? Why is that if I may ask? I see it as a good thing. BMW has a reputation of building one of the best if not The best engines in the world. SAAB with BMW engine will sure be better than any of the SAABs in the last decade or so. And engine sharing usually opens the door for platform sharing, another good thing for SAAB.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-09-2 ... -cars.html

Talks are still ongoing, and indeed they are also looking at using the Mini Clubman platform for the upcoming Saab 9-2. Diesel engines are also still on the table, but the deal is almost done for a 222hp petrol engine which BMW is still developing.

It is fairly obvious that BMW make good engines, but so did Saab, especially petrol ones. Maybe they just cannot afford it anymore to develop these on their own.

Yes you have a point there, SAAB did build good engines but that was when they were their own boss and had the resources, besides it takes a lot more work to make a good engine today compared to back than if I'm not mistaken.

The media here in Sweden is reporting that the they have a deal on a 1,6l engine and that the talks about other engines and platforms is ongoing.

Those will probably be new direct injection turbo engines.

The deal seems to be for BMW to deliver 1.6 turbo engines from 2012 and on, possibly going into the new Saab 9-1.

So BMW tried turbo-charging already in 1973 but ditched it to focus on larger atmos, while Saab made the concept stick in 1977 and with the perhaps even more ground-breaking APC-system in 1983, now Saab will buy turbo-engines from BMW?

Oh the irony.

It is all about technology. The new 166 kW engine will be designed for hybrid cars with all electric ancillaries. Obviously they will be cutting edge in fuel efficiency and the Saab deal will help with economy of scale. The development pace of engines is breathtaking and fuel efficiency is the biggest selling point.

The good news is that this shows SAAB development plans are serious enough to convince BMW to spend time/money forging the deal.

That's true, and I do hope Spyker can do something to revive the brand.

Personally, and as a BMW guy through and through, I've never thought their engines were anything special. BMW's magic is in their suspensions. On the other hand, I was a huge fan of the Saab B/H engine - beautiful torque right where you wanted it. And after they added balance shafts and their T7 ems, I think they had a 4-banger that felt as smooth as BMW's i6, and absolutely zero turbo lag.

They had some pretty trick stuff in the works, too; and I don't know if GM has that tech or what. But they were in the process of adding direct injection and variable valve timing, and even had a production prototype of a variable compression version they were road testing.

I believe all the B engine tooling went to China, yes? So maybe there's life left in it yet. It's got to be one of the longest lived engines around - designed by Triumph in the early 60's.

Pup wrote:
They had some pretty trick stuff in the works, too; and I don't know if GM has that tech or what. But they were in the process of adding direct injection and variable valve timing, and even had a production prototype of a variable compression version they were road testing.

like this one:



variable compression ratio engine:


I hope they can go back to the more unique engineering solutions, they once had.

Like parking brake acting on to the front wheels
and ignition key between the front seats etc.

747heavy wrote:

Pup wrote: I hope they can go back to the more unique engineering solutions, they once had.

Like parking brake acting on to the front wheels
and ignition key between the front seats etc.

And doors that wouldn't close when it was hot, and sunroofs that gurgled in the rain, and windshields that were so curved that no wiper on earth could clear them, etc. And don't get me started on their incredibly advanced rattle technology.

Actually, here's another cool blast from Saab's past...

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hi1HUik7yIE[/youtube]

Pup wrote: Personally, and as a BMW guy through and through, I've never thought their engines were anything special.

Well, their straight sixes have been quite nice over the years, especially the 3L twin turbo diesel (N54?).

Oh, and the V12 they built for Ron's little sports car wasn't bad either...

Would people say that Saab's interesting variable compression engine has been made somewhat obsolete by later systems involving valve timing etc. (especially things like FIAT's MultiAir system)?

The variable compression idea was good but I wonder if it was a little too "mechanical" (if you see what I mean) compared to newer methods.

I may be mistaken, but I think variable valve timing was already in the market before Saab's variable compression.

Sometimes mechanical is better, though I'm not sure I'd characterize Saab's system as unsophisticated. It, as it depended heavily on electronics. Though in concept it was dead simple, hinging the bottom end. Compare it to Lotus' later version which was crazy complicated and looked like it belonged in a ship.

As I remember, I think the Saab could even be run as a diesel.

countryman platform...ok.
but BMW engine? I might be too conservative thinking ther ebut wasn´t BMW into longitudinal mount engines in all their stuff except MINI?
This would imply considerable reweork on all ancilliaries and systems to fit into a front transverse installation and compromise potentially the engine mounting...