Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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gridwalker
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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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He should speak to Bernie about resurrecting Brabham ...
Last edited by gridwalker on Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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horse
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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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Well, why not 'Tyrrell'? I'm sure someone in Mercedes GP would be willing to part with the name and Gascoyne did work for them briefly.

I think there is a great number of choices that the 1Maylasia team could make which would allow them to walk away from this one with the higher ground - a French registered Lotus team just seems all wrong, for one thing. I think Dany Bahar has not understood British culture with this link-up (if he cares).
"Words are for meaning: when you've got the meaning, you can forget the words." - Chuang Tzu

CHT
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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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horse wrote:Well, why not 'Tyrrell'? I'm sure someone in Mercedes GP would be willing to part with the name and Gascoyne did work for them briefly.

I think there is a great number of choices that the 1Maylasia team could make which would allow them to walk away from this one with the higher ground - a French registered Lotus team just seems all wrong, for one thing. I think Dany Bahar has not understood British culture with this link-up (if he cares).
Proton has left them, and now Fauzy (test driver) has being released as well. Why are they still call 1Malaysia?

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mith
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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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Fernandes is Malaysian - that's why.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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Lotus should have done the right thing and sponsored Tony. They were too hasty and greedy for results so they jump right over to Renault. All I'm saying is: if the Lotus team were front runners out of the box you can bet your bottom dollar that Group Lotus would have sponsored them.
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marcush.
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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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what were they thinking? Neither Lotus nor Proton builds world class cars and they are not in business since September 2009 ....
that claim of being disappointed with the results is just ridiculous.Fernandes and Gascoyne did brilliant considering they had a late start compared to USF1,HRT and Virgin but still were the ones to deliver from day one.If anyone was ever going to score in 2010 of the new teams no doubt it was Lotus.
For whatever reason Proton does not want to have Fernandes in their boat anymore ...and they gave him a license in 2009 ... so what has changed their mind? Him negotiating with Hunt,perhaps ,who stole the F1 dream of Proton, perhaps? they seem to believe they do not have to pay for the Name Team Lotus,wich is right .But it is rather obvious that they cannot hinder Hunt to sell the teamname to Fernandes and him using it as well...

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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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I honestly don't get any of this, has my personal hero Gascoyne been shafted once again? Toyota, FI and now this ---?

MG is to my mind a true hero, the last of the "my way or the highway" kind, just like John Barnard or Gordon Murray,
why I miss those gentlemen far more then my limited eloquence allows me to xpress.

Going sentimental now, I try to emulate my heroes everyday when I go to this Trondheim office of mine, having a fantastic time mentoring my young guns with what I imagine being the original Mike Gascoyne-attitude;
"Call it team-work if you wish but never, and I mean never, forget who's team this is".

Wonder how they will like that in Zweibrucken marcush?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

marcush.
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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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I just love it ..and have no issue to be rear gunner when the boss has earned my respect.. :-)
I have to admit I have my doubts with the fresh from university I know it all who was Gascoyne anyways old man who would ever care for those outdates....I´m not sure if it is satisfying to work with those...but hell who cares?

John Barnard ,Gordon Murray,Dr.Harvey Postlethwaite and not to forget Rory Byrne
we miss them.
Last edited by marcush. on Mon Dec 13, 2010 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ringo
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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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mith wrote:Fernandes is Malaysian - that's why.
Sad but holds some truth to it it the promotions sense, not in the sense of any personal dislike to Fernandez. Initially European F1 fans were apprehensive to the Lotus brand being represented by a Malaysian owned team.
I think tony is aware of this, and this is why he always emphasizes where their head quarters are in the UK. He wants fans to be secure about the British Lotus team still being anglo-centric.

Proton being Malaysian themselves couldn't give a damn about tony. They want things to be quick and easy as possible. Why support your country man, when in reality lotus cars sell better in European countries, and would do well to be promoted their by a stronger team base in Renault?
From a business point of view, yes it's easier to give tony the shaft.

all's not lost however. Tony can try to build his name, maybe as the cool privateer team supported by the manufacturer. Malaysia 1 could be the new AMG, or HARTGE or what have you in privateer sports division racing. :lol:
For Sure!!

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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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Glad to hear that marcush, when my entire business idea is to be a mentor-like personality. Coupled with a die-hard attitude on "who's the boss here anyway?", which makes friends or not. At times it does, but it takes a man to make one.

I once had a boss like that, old-scool of course who made things very clear to me that if I had an opposing argument,
do feel free to xpress it, but if you challenged him and being scientifically proved wrong, I be in the deepest of shits.

The man is long time dead now, but you better believe it that I loved every second of working for the old fart.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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Are you a contractor?
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Jonsson
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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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horse wrote:I think the 1Maylasia (Team Lotus) Team should consider changing their title. Why not take on another classic mark like 'Cooper'?

Keep the British angle going, nice classic garagist history. I think fans of the team would adapt quickly, given the circumstances.
I can understand this confusion that 1Malaysia is also still Team Lotus as we tend to want to think that names have some permanence in F1. This whole thing with Lotus is an Intellectual Property nightmare, believe me. But, 1Malaysia should not be considered a part of Tony's and Mike Gascoyne's Team Lotus anymore. 1Malaysia has more to do with the Malaysian government-back Proton and their sponsorship of Renault now. It was a name used when Tony's Lotus Racing and Lotus Cars (Proton) were in agreement. Now that everything's fallen apart, Tony's team is now solely considered to be Team Lotus, as they have legitimately purchased the brand from David Hunt.

This 3 party situation is really just a battle between David Hunt and Proton over rights to the F1 Lotus name. It's VERY shady that Proton has become title sponsor of another constructor and used the Lotus name. I think that directly infringes Team Lotus's trademark rights as it will likely cause confusion amongst the fans. If it was US law, "Lotus" Renault would be banned from using the Lotus name since they are directly passing off on Tony's legitimate trademark rights in the F1 industry. As long as David Hunt maintained his rights to the Lotus name properly in the nineties and 2000's (this doesn't take much), Tony and his team own the name fair and square.

Team Lotus (Tony's team) is actually located in Britain. He's stayed very true to the British heritage of the name and the embodiment of Lotus as a constructor, instead of just a mere sponsor. It's a very valuable name in F1, as it has won 6 (or 7?) constructor's titles, only behind Ferrari, McLaren, and Williams. Keep in mind, normal people and race fans don't pay attention to F1 like you all do. If an older Lotus fan sees two Lotus teams on the grid next year, he or she won't know which one to root for. The Black and Gold Renault is going to confuse the hell out these fans. That's why every true F1 fan should make it a point to de-legitimize the "Lotus" Renault team. Lotus Cars (Proton) have never built an F1 car, and are only entering the area through the back door (via title sponsorship) to undermine Tony's team. All this is, is crafty Malaysian businessmen seeing $$$$$$$ everywhere.

We'll see what the courts decide, but I seriously think "Lotus" Renault will be banned from using the Lotus name; unless they come to some sort of agreement with Team Lotus.

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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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n smikle wrote:Lotus should have done the right thing and sponsored Tony. They were too hasty and greedy for results so they jump right over to Renault. All I'm saying is: if the Lotus team were front runners out of the box you can bet your bottom dollar that Group Lotus would have sponsored them.
Toyota invested billions of dollars to build their F1 team from scratch and coincidentally Mike was their technical director and Trulli was their driver too. If Toyota, with their deep pockets cant do it, what makes Proton think they could?

IMO, Team Lotus is finished. I see no reason why and how Tony can continue to bank roll this F1 team. I think he wil be better off merging his team with Virgin.

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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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n smikle wrote:Are you a contractor?
Pretty much so, freelancing with product-development within mechanical engineering, rotating machinery in particular.

This is why I have such a faiblesse for the likes of Mike Gascoyne, John Barnard, Robin Herd and Tony Southgate.
Free spirits, without pre-judgements on anything really. Just do what you are asked to, within the constraints given.

From 1995 to 97, Barnard tried three different aerodynamic concepts at Ferrari, not that any of them really worked.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"

marcush.
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Re: Group Lotus buys Renault F1 Team

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I do like that style ,thomas and I´m the guy in the eye to eye meetings with the boss speaking my mind openly and coming up with different views .
But as soon as the decision is made there is only one direction. Head down and get on with the job.If you feel to still need to discuss then you should be better prepared in the next meeting :wink:
But back to Lotus buys Renault...
I like Fernandes approach and he showed commitment to create something worth being called Lotus.
Buying into Renault without any tech input is really not Lotus at all.One could say Honda Mercedes BMW and Renault did so but all those started supplying engines
to these teams and not start with a bag of money (do they have any money?)