2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[xpensive]

I was thinking the same thing;

27.8 g/sec at 46.4 MJ/kg and 35% efficiency, which is a lot, means 451 kW or 614 Hp from the engine.

The MGU-K is in now limited to 50 000 Rpm and 200 Nm (See 5.2.3), which equals 105 kW or 142 Hp.

Total 556 kW or 756 metric HP, obviously matched to today's engines.

The 900 Hp is total fantasy of course, but good marketing.

[wuzak]

The MGU-K is in now limited to 50 000 Rpm and 200 Nm (See 5.2.3), which equals 105 kW or 142 Hp.

I think you've made a calculation error - 50,000rpm and 200Nm = 1047kW.

I agree that 900hp is wishful thinking. 800hp may be possible within a few years. 750-780hp would be around the mark next year I think.

[WhiteBlue]

The AMuS article is by Michael Schmidt who is extremely well connected at the FiA and Mercedes. He is a very reliable source when it comes to such news. I would take the 800 hp figure in race trim to the bank.

The big unknown is the high pressure injection system they are now free to develop. You have to consider that they will try to get spray guided combustion with full compression before injection up to 10.500 rpm. That has been like the quest for the holy grail in ICE design for some years. There would be massive efficiency gain from that technology.

Another area of potential efficiency gains is the turbine and heat recovery design. We have seen that the exhaust runners will be shrouded for temperature insulation. I also suspect that highly efficient axial turbine designs will be used.

On the other hand it is clear that the peak power figures will not be sustainable over a full lap at high power circuits that see 75-80% WOT. I just don't believe that the electric generation is sufficient to support 120 kW over such extended times. But it will be enough for massive power peaks. I look forward to some interesting times in the coming months.

[xpensive]

The MGU-K is in now limited to 50 000 Rpm and 200 Nm (See 5.2.3), which equals 105 kW or 142 Hp.

I think you've made a calculation error - 50,000rpm and 200Nm = 1047kW.

I agree that 900hp is wishful thinking. 800hp may be possible within a few years. 750-780hp would be around the mark next year I think.

Ooops, I stand corrected, also missed the diagram with the 120 kW limit on power transfer, let's forget about the 1047 kW.

Let's try again;
27.8 g/sec at 46.4 MJ/kg and 35% efficiency, which is a lot, means 451 kW or 614 Hp from the engine.

The MGU-K is in now limited to 50 000 Rpm and 200 Nm (See 5.2.3), but also to 120 kW or 163 Hp.

Total 556 kW or 777 metric HP, perhaps matched to today's engines?

The 900 Hp would call for 737 Hp engine, 542 kW, and an efficiency of 42%, which I doubt very much.

[Cold Fussion]

Quick question, what's the purpose of the race fuel limit? Shouldn't the fuel rate limit negate any need for such a sporting rule?

[WhiteBlue]

Quick question, what's the purpose of the race fuel limit? Shouldn't the fuel rate limit negate any need for such a sporting rule?

The philosophy behind it is making sure that there is no or very little trickery with overrun maps. They could be used to burn fuel for electricity generation with the MGU-H. With 100 kg fuel between lights out and the chequered flag there is little scope for such things.

[ringo]

The MGU-K is in now limited to 50 000 Rpm and 200 Nm (See 5.2.3), which equals 105 kW or 142 Hp.

I think you've made a calculation error - 50,000rpm and 200Nm = 1047kW.

I agree that 900hp is wishful thinking. 800hp may be possible within a few years. 750-780hp would be around the mark next year I think.

Ooops, I stand corrected, also missed the diagram with the 120 kW limit on power transfer, let's forget about the 1047 kW.

Let's try again;
27.8 g/sec at 46.4 MJ/kg and 35% efficiency, which is a lot, means 451 kW or 614 Hp from the engine.

The MGU-K is in now limited to 50 000 Rpm and 200 Nm (See 5.2.3), but also to 120 kW or 163 Hp.

Total 556 kW or 777 metric HP, perhaps matched to today's engines?

The 900 Hp would call for 737 Hp engine, 542 kW, and an efficiency of 42%, which I doubt very much.

Yeah, the fuel flow rate just wont allow 900hp.

[pgfpro]

I think they will be surprising a lot of us.

We might see BSFC numbers around .30lbs/hr or 182 g/kWh for the first time. If they are at these levels this will help with the road cars of tomorrow when it comes to efficiency.

[xpensive]

I just can't get anything right today, there seems to be an argument over the energy density of gasoline;

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/ArthurGolnik.shtml

27.78 g/sec at 46.0 kJ/g and 35% efficiency, which is a lot, means 447 kW or 608 Hp from the engine.

The MGU-K is in now limited to 50 000 Rpm and 200 Nm (See 5.2.3), but also to 120 kW or 163 Hp.

Total 567 kW or 771 metric HP, perhaps matched to today's engines?

The 900 Hp would call for 737 Hp engine, 542 kW, and an efficiency of 42.4%, which I doubt very much.

[Blanchimont]

There are two different heat values, the higher and the lower one.
As far is i know the lower heat value should be used for calculations in combustion engines.

[xpensive]

There are two different heat values, the higher and the lower one.
...

I doubt it.

[Blanchimont]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_of_combustion

LHV and HHV...

[xpensive]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_of_combustion

LHV and HHV...

In that case, perhaps we could sort of agree to use 46 MJ/kg from now on, don't you think?

WB?

[WhiteBlue]

We have agreed to use 46 for a long time. Nobody knows exactly what the figure is for F1 petrol. But one has to assume that it will be higher than road car gasoline. 46 MJ/kg or kJ/g is pretty good unless someone finds a source that would be more specific.

If we do get 800 bhp as AMuS report that would mean the ICE would have 476.5 kW. With our heat figure we would get 37.3% brake thermal efficiency. That is a higher value than our estimates so far, but not inconceivable if there are some fundamental break through in technology. I would not bet against it happening.

[xpensive]

We have agreed to use 46 for a long time.
...

Guess I've been gone for a long time. 900 Hp is marketing, but where does this difference between q and race come from?