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Flags normally have an obvious top so that they always get hung the right way up, but most people don't seem to even know that the Union Flag (aka Union Jack) is not symetrical and has a right and wrong way to be hung (Broad white diagonal on the top nearest the pole).

Now the flags on the podium are hung as a banner, so are there rules in how flags should be hung in this way. Is the logical top of the pole to the left or to the right?

In this picture of the podium in Australia the Union Flag is hung one way and the German and the Russian flag the other, So is this dissing the Union Jack or the German and Russian Flags?


Sorry couldnt work how to put in the image

I always thought the way they hung over the podium was so that "normal" left became "banner" top. So the flags are just rotated 90 right. No?

Sooner they quit that retarded 19th century flag nonsense the better.

It should be Red Bull flags, Vodafone flags and Genii Capital flags.

What's wrong with a bit of national pride? And this is coming from someone whose country doesn't even have a driver in F1

feynman wrote:Sooner they quit that retarded 19th century flag nonsense the better.

It should be Red Bull flags, Vodafone flags and Genii Capital flags.

I think you'll find that country flags existed much earlier than the 19th century. The current Union Flag ("British flag"), for example, came in to being in 1801 but is based on the much earlier 1606 Union Flag (just adding the red diagonals to the 1606 version).

And I'd rather they showed country flags rather than sponsor flags, that's for sure, even if for no other reason than motor racing started out as a nation-against-nation type of event. It's part of F1 history, you see.

I don't get why UK get to put up the UK flag. I mean, shouldn't British drivers be sorted as per each of their countries too? ie St. George's Cross for Britain, St. Andrews' for Scots, and the tricolor flag for Irishmen?

feynman wrote:Sooner they quit that retarded 19th century flag nonsense the better.

It should be Red Bull flags, Vodafone flags and Genii Capital flags.

+1

Add anthems to the list


Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world

You may say that I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will live as one

raymondu999 wrote:I don't get why UK get to put up the UK flag. I mean, shouldn't British drivers be sorted as per each of their countries too? ie St. George's Cross for Britain, St. Andrews' for Scots, and the tricolor flag for Irishmen?

No. The people of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland use the Union Flag.

As much as the naysayers like to prattle on (and the indigenous races like to needle each other) the country is not split along national lines.

I am English but would use the Union Flag for international events..but St George inside the country.

Flags are great

So if I'm understanding you right, it's more like the US and it's states? Except this is only 3 different entities?

Just_a_fan wrote:I think you'll find that country flags existed much earlier than the 19th century.

And I know you'll find that the collectivist notion of the modern nation state and nationalism is a romanticist invention of the late 19th century. A reactionary response to 18th century internationalist enlightenment ideals.

Nation states, closed border, the monolithic state, are a very, very recent invention, hence the reason for their gross reliance on symbols, flags and anthems. Tradition = the illusion of permanence.

The whole point of contemporary F1 is it's international meritocratic nature, when it is at its best it has nothing to do with closed nationalism. McLaren employs staff from 25 or 30 countries I believe, that is exactly how it should be. Cars wrapped in flags make me queasy.

Gaudy dish towels getting run up the flagpole and awful dreadful dirges over the PA system are nothing to do with modern F1 and should be rejected. They should be left in the past with dolly birds and straw bales.
... Not that it affects me much, haven't seen a podium for years, I'm off doing that piss I've been holding in for the last dozen laps.

raymondu999 wrote:I don't get why UK get to put up the UK flag. I mean, shouldn't British drivers be sorted as per each of their countries too? ie St. George's Cross for Britain, St. Andrews' for Scots, and the tricolor flag for Irishmen?

Irishmen would use the Irish flag. Northen Irish would use the Union Flag - except for the nationalists who would have a united Ireland. And I'm not going in to that debate here...

As for the rest, the people of the UK use the Union Flag when it's the country as a whole and their respective flags when it's related purely to their bit of the Union. E.g. England playing Scotland at rugby - cross of St. George and the Saltire would be used.

feynman wrote:

Just_a_fan wrote:I think you'll find that country flags existed much earlier than the 19th century.

And I know you'll find that the collectivist notion of the modern nation state and nationalism is a romanticist invention of the late 19th century. A reactionary response to 18th century internationalist enlightenment ideals.

Nation states, closed border, the monolithic state, are a very, very recent invention, hence the reason for their gross reliance on symbols, flags and anthems. Tradition = the illusion of permanence.

And yet a number of nations had national flags well before this. Indeed, they went to war with these flags well before this. When various European nations were killing each other in the 16th and 17th centuries they did so whilst flying national flags - albeit different to those flown by those countries today in some cases.

raymondu999 wrote:So if I'm understanding you right, it's more like the US and it's states? Except this is only 3 different entities?

No, I'd say it's more like France or Germany only with 4 different entities (England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland). We have to include the Welsh as an entity although they're not recognised as such on the Union Flag because they were effectively annexed (conquered) in 1284. The Welsh flag is a red dragon on a green and white ground.

There can be a fierce rivalry between bits of the UK and some in each bit would have full independence from the others if they could. In that regard it's more like Spain - think Basques, Catalans etc. I'm not so sure that exists in the US but I might be wrong.

In that regard Feynman is right when he talks about the recent existance of nation states. England (as distinct from Britain which didn't exist formally) used to fight the Spanish (think Armarda etc.) but Spain was an amalgamation of a number of states (Castille, Aragon etc.) under a common monarchy much as the UK currently is (the Spain continues to be).

It makes modern poltics look simple really...

Well, sporting regulations say this:

APPENDIX 3
PODIUM CEREMONY
...
2. PODIUM
...
b) FLAGS
Olympic Games style "flat flags" should be used...

If you look for national olympic flags, here you find the official site for national flags in 2008:

http://www.olympic-flags.net/olympic-flags-g.htm

Here is the picture:



Those are the pictures for German and Russian flags in the same site:





So, yes, broad white diagonal goes on the top of the diagonal closer to the pole or to the left or to the top, if drawn or being hung "Olympic style", flat.

In 2010 they hung it from the top and they did it right. I couldn't find the 2011 version


If they hung it otherwise, well, what can I say? I apologize in the name of FIA, being a proud member of the ACC. We won't do it again, I bet (except, maybe, at any possible future Argentinian GP, but you know how those guys are).

About the suggestions about no flags, flags for each "country" in the UK, the abolition of flags, the substitution of flags for sponsor flags, the abolition of countries and the general improvement of the world and its neighborhood including unicorns and robot servants, all I can say is this:

I'll have the same as you, guys.

Just_a_fan wrote:And yet a number of nations had national flags well before this. Indeed, they went to war with these flags well before this. When various European nations were killing each other in the 16th and 17th centuries they did so whilst flying national flags - albeit different to those flown by those countries today in some cases.

The political geography was a lot more fluid than any fixed modern notion of sovereign nationhood. City states, interbreeding monarchies, empires, trading-leagues and revolutionary republics.
A flow of talent across porous borders, the nationality and mercenary status of many of those 16th century armies, or civilian governments may surprise.

I always enjoy seeing animations that show the European borders ebb, flow and twist over 2000 years. How late the German city states snap into a country. The utter impermanence of supposedly fixed and intransigent borders. Contrast it with how tightly some try to cling to those imaginary lines drawn on maps, as if they have always been there, as if they actually exist in the real world as opposed to only in people's minds.

The notion that people born of a nation-state share innate common attributes, separate from the attributes of people from another nation, is a very late 18th and definitely 19th century romanticist invention. (Prior inventions used to justify and legitimize the state, empire, monarchy were not based on this idea, a narrow conception of "us" and "the other", and hence could afford to take a generally looser view on such matters).

An Englishman and a South African working for a Frenchman to make an Italian car with Japanese tyres win lots of World championships for a German, that is the very apex and essence of F1.
Senna was not a national icon, he was an international icon.
Vodafone, Red Bull and Philip Morris have no use for outmoded borders. Racing teams do not care about race, they want the best talent no matter its source or folklore.
F1 should be cutting edge, should distance itself from old-fashioned national flags and horrible (almost exclusively 19th century) affronts to the musical performing arts.
Its podiums should instead be a celebration of its globalist achievement.