Williams/Virgin behind EBD off throttle ban.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Seems Cosworth powered teams dont like the idea of developing the EBD.....

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 64617.html

[xpensive]

Are you seriously suggesting that the F1 minnows throw enough weight to persuade the FIA to ban the EBD mid-season?

Doubt that very much, far more likely that they would listen to Norbert if you ask me...

[astracrazy]

aint that a surprise

two teams who are really under performing want the ban

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Xpensive

Take it up with AMuS. I think their track record with getting this sort of thing right far exceeds any other source I can think of.

[xpensive]

Xceeds even Chris Sylt or Joe Sewer...naah?

But seriously, when I think most people in the pits suspect Mercedes to be behind it, as they should have the most to gain,
AMuS laying out a smokescreen wouldn't be too far fetched would it? It is a German publication after all and come to think of it, didn't Norbert work there as a journo?

[andrew]

I have to agree with X here. It does seem a bit of a stretch to believe that Williams and Virgin alone where behind this. I didn't think either carried enough clout.

More than likely it was a silver team with the help of some red. They are quite vocal on Red Bull's advantage.

YallaF1 has run this story however they cite Auto Motor und Sport as their source.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Come on X, thats stretching it a bit far.

Mercedes have invested alot of cash in getting the EBD working, especially with McLaren. We also know Mercedes are quite advanced with an FEE.

No, the real reason is that Cosworth probably didnt have the wherewithal to compete with Renault, Mercedes and Ferrari in the exhaust arms race.
The 2 teams realising this, went cap in hand to the FIA whom looked upon them with some pity.

Williams are also now known for stamping their feet and going against the grain, something I feel that has to do with Adam Parr.....

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

So let me get this straight Andrew...

You agree with X that Mercedes are behind this, when the story you quoted has Brawn saying this...

Also disappointed is Mercedes GP team boss Ross Brawn.

“The teams and engine manufacturers have invested a lot of money in this technology that is now thrown out of the window,” he said.

In line with my previous post that Mercedes spent alot of cash developing this tech.

[andrew]

Did I mention Mercedes? I don't think I did but if the cap fits.....

They are not the only silver team and I don't recall Merc complaining too much about Red Bull.

[beelsebob]

[...]
Actually, in an interview on the BBC's FP1 show, Whitmarsh basically said "well, there's two ways for us to catch red bull 1) make our EBD better 2) take theirs away"... he obviously used a lot more words, but that's the jist of what he said.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@beelsebob

From Scarbs:

All teams will be affected to some extent, however the more aggressive that teams have been with the exhaust position relative to the floor, then the greater they will be affected. From the start of the season Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren have blown the exhaust at the outer 5cm of diffuser. this area is allowed to to be open and bow the exhaust gas under the diffuser for greater downforce. these designs will be most greatly affected by the clarification. Renaults Front Exit exhaust is also likely to be a victim of the change. Many teams have been developing Red Bull Style outer-5cm EBDs, such as: Williams, Lotus, Virgin, Sauber, While Mercedes are rumoured to be adopting a front exit exhaust. These may to need be shelved after Canada, in order to employ a less aggressive EBD.

[beelsebob]

@beelsebob

From Scarbs:

All teams will be affected to some extent, however the more aggressive that teams have been with the exhaust position relative to the floor, then the greater they will be affected. From the start of the season Red Bull, Ferrari and McLaren have blown the exhaust at the outer 5cm of diffuser. this area is allowed to to be open and bow the exhaust gas under the diffuser for greater downforce. these designs will be most greatly affected by the clarification. Renaults Front Exit exhaust is also likely to be a victim of the change. Many teams have been developing Red Bull Style outer-5cm EBDs, such as: Williams, Lotus, Virgin, Sauber, While Mercedes are rumoured to be adopting a front exit exhaust. These may to need be shelved after Canada, in order to employ a less aggressive EBD.

Sure, and I respect Scarbs' opinion, but at the end of the day, Whitmarsh is the one in the know.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Sure, But Mclaren will be hit just as hard due to the sheer size of their diffuser.

They may have other options, as would Red Bull.

Some theories going round actually suggest RB's advantage would increase...

[marcush.]

well ,any team can file a formal protest and surely Bernie and Jean would not like to have this sort of discussion amidst a grandPrix weekend.
If Williams and Virgin(notably not HRT-so we can see from where the activity is not coming from ?)threaten to protest the misuse of the engine for aerodynamic enhancement the FIA just has to take action .
Brings up a further issue :when you open throttle in overrun you will not have any engine brake effect but adding fuel will propel =push the car in the braking zone so the car has to go in neutral/depress the clutch in overrun conditions ?

[beelsebob]

Sure, But Mclaren will be hit just as hard due to the sheer size of their diffuser.

They may have other options, as would Red Bull.

Some theories going round actually suggest RB's advantage would increase...

Agreed, it's not clear. My best prediction (and it appears from listening to him, Whitmarsh's too) is that McLaren would go backwards compared to Mercedes, Williams and the backmarkers, but forwards compared to RedBull and Renault, and stay roughly where they are compared to Ferrari. They probably don't care about any of the teams they'd go backwards compared to in that prediction, other than Mercedes.