Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
How funny it is, Newey is now very eager to extend the RBR Renault engine deal. They might not be too happy with Renault considering a works team deal, but then again, Renault has always provided each team with identical engines, contrary to Ferrari for instance.
I would not be too surprised with a Williams tie up, although it will likely only be a free engine deal. Williams would be extremely happy with that, that's for sure
Thunder wrote:With the Renault engine could come Grosjean...
If Kubica makes it next year, i think Heidfeld would be at Williams, if Renault to partner Williams as a works partner i can see a high caliber driver at Williams to make sure everything can be wrung out the car, so either Webber or Massa with Maldanado???
It could see Maldanado moved on as well as he may not be what is wanted.
I recon that Williams will have either Heidfeld, Glock or Sutil in Rubens seat next year due to Rubens wanting to retire at the end of the year.
Renault and Williams will be a strong partnership if it goes ahead, williams will need a strong #1 driver for a couple years whilst they get the infrastructure and process right within the team for the race winning results they need to attain again.
The CA2011 isnt bad, its just lacking the development that it missed in 2007-2009 i think. Those 3 years were crucial i think. It could have been so much more with 3 more years development.
The williams is letting the side down, however i think the chassis is about 70% to blame in showing off the CA2011 for williams, and the CA2011 is flattering the Virgin and Hispania cars at present.
However if Williams and Cosworth stay together for 2012 and Hispania and Virgin carry forward a decent chassis as well, im sure the CA2011 could make some teams and principles take note.
What's in it for Renault to sell its involvement in Enstone & reinvest (beyond just engine supply) in the Grove team though?
And there is constant mention of the exodus of engineers from Enstone too..
What do they all know about developments at Enstone that we don't?
For the French manufacturer to sell its own team and buy a stake in Williams is a significant long-term shift. This is potentially as big (if not bigger) as Mercedes switching its backing from McLaren to the ex-Brawn team.
ESPImperium wrote:If Kubica makes it next year..
..Renault and Williams will be a strong partnership if it goes ahead, Williams will need a strong #1 driver for a couple years..
And yes, Kubica has always stated he wants to be at a factory team. We already know his contract has an exit-clause for change of team ownership for this very reason.
So I'm beginning to doubt a 2012 at the Renault F1 Team.
A switch to a factory-backed Williams could be quite likely.
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Yes, this will be a huge shift. I wasn't aware that Renault wanted back in on the manufacturing side of things. I guess it would be more of a partnership with Williams than an outright buyout right?
Also Williams are also wanting Colin Kolles to be their Race Team manager taking over from Adam Parr at trackside so he can concentrate on running the company as Sir Frank and Patrick are both going to half their F1 commitments next year by half or more. Id recon they will go to about 12 races between them.
They are looking at the McLaren model now as they have seen what Ron Dennis has done with Martin Whitmarsh.
The projects that Renault want to go into are possibly rally and a tin top series and would like to trade on the Williams-Renault linage, or as my uncle had once had a Renault-Williams Laguna. Id recon that there will be a concerted effort for Renault to ditch Einstone and go to Grove next year as Rubens is now talking about exciting times and the fact he will be needed again next year.
However i have also been looking at the situation in Venezuela recently and if Chavez is deposed in elections or something happens to him due to ill health, the €20m from PDVSA could dry up quick enough for Williams to drop Maldanado on his ear.
I think that Williams is going to have Renault power next year with a Barrichello and Kubica/Glock/Heidfeld/Buemi line up.
Einstone will have Cosworth power and a Petrov and Kubica/Glock/Heidfeld/Buemi line up as well.
Outgoing Williams employees have been seen on boats in Valenica owned by a Silverstone Based teams owner. It looks as if Sam Michael and Jon Tomlinson will leave to go into new jobs at Force India now, not Hispania.
Tomba wrote:How funny it is, Newey is now very eager to extend the RBR Renault engine deal.
I can't help but feel there are some deft politics going on here. Rightly or wrongly, although there are some figures out there to support it, Red Bull feel that the Renault is not the most powerful engine out there. They're not going to be allowed a Mercedes engine, so that's that.
Despite all the dispensation they've had to make changes to the Renault for exhaust blowing, one of the things they haven't been able to get that they want is a process of equalisation in terms of engine power because they simply get outvoted by other teams who would rather it didn't happen, for whatever reason. Renault supplying four teams would enable that to happen.
In addition, it's also a secondary process of freezing Cosworth and Mosley's friends out.
The Renault block isnt as far away now as smome may think. There once awas up to a 35hp drop between the Mercedes and the Renault, with the past 2 years developments the Renault id recon will only be about 15 to 20hp away now.
With the Blown Diffuser rullings Renault has said the developments made could compromise their block a little more in terms of relyability as they have butterflies not barrels for opening the exhaust trumpets, and the other areas they have developed are now much better. The Renault fuel consumption is slightly higher, but only by arround 0.05kg a lap to 2009 specs, and the cooling is the same.
Mercedes have worked for about the past year on cooling, only putting on arround 1% in Brake Horse to the Renaults usual 2.5%, as you can usually expect a engine to put on arround 2% brake in a season.
The gulf between the Mercedes and Renault isnt as great as it once was, however the Ferrari is still in between, however the Ferrari is a diffrent beat entirly. The Cosworth is up there in broad terms of power, but is slightly compromised as an engine as it has not got 3 years development the the others had on them between 2007 and 2009.
The only other engine that could be lumped in a F1 car "tomorrow" is the Toyota, as they have kept up a shadow development with Pirelli and their block is much better on fuel consumption now than before, and has about 6% more power than what it had in 2009, whitch was 738, so you could say that the Toyota block is pushing the better part of 780 out now.
Still a bit of a gulf between the top and bottom, but the 2 other V8s that could be used in Honda and BMW are stagnent now at 770 for BMW and 745 for Honda, and thd they have been stagnent since they pulled out.
I think that there isnt really much between engines now, not like the old V10 era and before, id say the last year there was something major between top and bottom in engine terms was 2006/2007 as the engines had their own ECUs then and the TC was what was making each block diffrent. Now theres not even a sheet of paper between them, The only thing between them now is what chassis they are attached to.
Back on topic, i think that Williams and Renault are looking at what the BMW Sauber model was, where the engine plant and chassis plant are seprate, but the fact that Grove is much more than what Einstone is is giving Renault what the need, as they can run multiple teams from one area. A F1 team, a Rally team and a Tin Top team as well if that be GT or WTCC or WTCC, they can all be run form one site with all resources used at 100% with arround the same efficency not a F1 only site that is about 60% efficent with their resources and running at 90-100% time of year dependant.
And also the Historical payment for Renault would be combined with Williams one, making a tidy €37.5m boost to the F1 budget for the year. As opposed to the €20m that Renault are getting untill they change their name and the €17.5m that Williams are reciving.
Williams has secured a long-term engine deal with Renault, reviving the most successful chassis-engine partnership of the 1990s.
Renault, which already supplies Red Bull, Lotus Renault GP and Team Lotus, will supply Williams with V8s from 2012 to 2013, with a view to continuing the deal when V6 turbos are introduced in 2014. Williams is currently supplied by Cosworth and will continue use the same engines for the rest of the 2011 season.
"We are delighted and excited by our new partnership with Renault," Sir Frank Williams said. "This reunites the F1 team with a leading car manufacturer and complements our new relationship with Jaguar. At the same time, we are grateful to Cosworth: they have been a fair and reliable partner both on and off the track for the past two years and we look forward to working with them across our business in the future.
"Our previous relationship with Renault was one of the most successful in Williams' history but we will not allow ourselves to dwell too much on the past. We must look to the future and continue to re-build our on-track reputation, which I am hopeful that today's announcement will help us to do."
Renault engine boss Bernard Rey added: "Renault remains in Formula One to achieve success in a cost efficient way and the partnership with Williams has great potential to add to the results we have notched up over recent years with our other partner teams. Williams has recently taken several important steps, both commercially and technically, to update its operations and we feel that this partnership is another important step in its rigorous plan. It reiterates how determined the team is to achieve results, which matches perfectly with our own objectives.
"From 2012 onwards the fact that we will have four partners puts us ahead of other engine manufacturers in terms of market share, but off track it will also enable us to further use Formula One as a marketing platform for our parent company, Renault, to try to bring a bit of this association to our fans and our customers worldwide.
"Of course there's also a great pride in reviving the Williams-Renault name. Together, we produced racing cars that are recognised for their technical innovation and it is still Renault's most successful period in F1 to date. It's a hugely exciting opportunity for both Renault and Williams."
Renault powered Williams to four drivers' titles and five constructors' championships between 1992 and 1997.
