I think Webber is overrated

[WhiteBlue]

Obviously neither driver wanted it to happen, but from our point of view Heikki was driving in a straight line, defending his position and then someone hits him from behind. Mark's charged up behind Heikki, he's got the quicker car and Heikki has to brake where he brakes because of the (tyre) grip he has. It's up to the guy overtaking to do so safely, and he didn't. Mark's now had two accidents in three races and it's never been his fault.

This one obviously was. I wonder why the big Aussie is making these excuses. His reputation as a straight talking man is taking a nose dive here. Mark may delude himself by thinking that Kovalainen should have gone out of his way like a lapped driver. He is making a fundamental mistake if he does. You are unprepared for the defensive action and the other drivers situation if you make sloppy assumptions like that. Heikki was legitimately fighting for position and no wishful thinking on Mark's part can prevent him from doing so.

[Terrible3]

Up to this point in the season a red-bull racing vs lotus for position was extremely rare and Webber didn't seem to realize how difficult these new cars are to drive.

I still think its a pretty fundamentally big mistake on Mark's part. To say "I have never been behind a slower car before so I had no idea how early they braked'" is a crock of crap. The top drivers have been passing back markers all season, however yes most of the time with the aid of a blue flag. None the less it seems like Mark has been the only driver to have a real judgment issue when trying to overtake a slower car.

I have not had a chance to see the crash since it happened live but to me it looks like Mark was completely at fault. Kov drove defensively (as he should have) up the middle when approaching the turn. Webber made a move to the right as he approached the Lotus at speed. Kov then made one move to the left to position himself for the braking zone. Webber no applicable reason and turned right and slotted in directly behind. At that point Kov hit the brakes at the proper braking zone for his car and Webber tried to avoid but it was all too late. I don't get why Webber made the move to the left to try and get a slightly longer tow on the Lotus. Mark already had a run on Kov and had far superior bares and grip. Mark could have not made the move to the right and easily out braked the lotus up the inside. Mark can only place the blame on himself...

Anyways I still don't understand how he heads off the drivers meetings. He his the most aggressive and careless driver when it comes to defending and overtaking others on the track. It will be interesting to see how the rest of the season unfolds. I felt that Mark was genuinely quick on a few of the tracks but for the most part Vettel is faster. I think Mark has failed to capitalize on the poor reliability of Vettels car at the start of the season and in return this will hurt MW WDC chances.

[pdezzi]

Kovi meant that he braked early, COMPARED to Webber. It was his NORMAL braking point, at the 100 board. Webber says he braked 80m early! Does this mean that the Bull only needs 20M?? No wonder he tried to use Kovi as a brake!

Did you even see the crash..... theres no way he braked at 100m , more like 130m....

Picture: http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1562/webberj.png

but yeah 80m's is still a bit of an exaggeration. Heikki braked about 40-50m before Webber would usually. Which if you ask me is still an enormous difference considering Heikki approaches the corner at a slower speed.

[segedunum]

You hit the nail on the head. Heidfeld should get that seat.

Kubica isn't signed for next year and drivers like Heidfeld and Raikkonen are sitting around on the sidelines and Red Bull are resigning Webber as well as talking about Buemi. I can't imagine what they are playing at.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

If Webber is overrated, how does this reflect on the wunderkind vettel?

[autogyro]

I am dissapointed.
I began to believe that Webber was maturing into a top level driver.
Unfortunately he still has issues when trying to overtake in the pack.
This is not the first time he has run into the back of other drivers, he is beginning to make a habit of it.
This latest accident was IMO solely his fault.

[PNSD]

I think both RBR drivers are overrated tbh.

If they are out in front, get a good start then its unlikley you will see them again till you meet on the podium!

However, the way i see it is the moment you give them an ounce of pressure or stick 'em in an akward posistion they make mistakes.

This where Mclaren are beating them this season. Mclaren have two drivers who can run off into the distance, but if things arent going their way, they will still get results, Lewis especially.

[marcush.]

I think both RBR drivers are overrated tbh.

If they are out in front, get a good start then its unlikley you will see them again till you meet on the podium!

However, the way i see it is the moment you give them an ounce of pressure or stick 'em in an akward posistion they make mistakes.

This where Mclaren are beating them this season. Mclaren have two drivers who can run off into the distance, but if things arent going their way, they will still get results, Lewis especially.

I think the truth is very hard for RedBull ,they should have grabbed Button ,he would without a doubt have made the most out of the cars potential , no idiot moves leading to dnfs ..I´m absolutely sure about this he would be on top spot in the standings now.
maybe even better would have been Hamilton ,but I think of him as Mclaren and will stay there.

[gridwalker]

I've said since F3000 that Webber is a competent journeyman, much to the irritation of certain Australian friends ... he's still done nothing in F1 to convince me otherwise!

[WhiteBlue]

I think the truth is very hard for RedBull ,they should have grabbed Button ,he would without a doubt have made the most out of the cars potential....

IMO Red Bull are doing the right thing. They correctly recognized Vettel's talent when he won the Monza race in 2008 for Toro Rosso. They kept Mark Webber to provide the team with consistency in the driver department. The main problem of Red Bull isn't Webber or Vettel, it is their lack of reliability. With reliability they would lead both championships by a long way.

They are now keeping Webber on one year contracts as they should while Vettel fights his second WDC campaign. I'm confident that Seb will outscore his team mate and Webber will return to a supporting role later in the season. That is why he is at Red Bull.

Button would also make a good Red Bull driver but Red Bull do not have the pull of McLaren for him.

[pseudocyber]

Retarding the ignition on the overrun means the fuel ignites after the exhaust valve opens and keeps burning & expanding in the exhaust, this keep exhaust flow going. Effectively its like keeping the throttle open without the car accelerating.

I don't know why Red Bull haven chosen to run a trick ignition system to improve their exhaust flow over the RB6 diffuser : Surely with Mark Webber driving, they have enough retarded components already

We saw in Valencia that mark is a master of keeping the throttle open whilst finding things to prevent the car from accelerating ... unfortunately, using a Lotus to do this is also likely to damage the car.

[Patrickl]

We saw in Valencia that mark is a master of keeping the throttle open whilst finding things to prevent the car from accelerating ... unfortunately, using a Lotus to do this is also likely to damage the car.

At least he used the car of another team to "prevent his car from accelerating" ...

[andrew]

I see Webber has been shooting his mouth off again:

http://www.crash.net/f1/news/161356/1/m ... ebber.html

[Mitsuhirato]

There's proverb in my country (and probably in others) that says "people living under glass ceilings shouldn't throw stones".

In this case, the joke's on Mark, since his ceiling is probably long gone.

[Giblet]

What a pathetic thread.

Like or loathe Webber, this thread and ones like are attracting new users who come here to merely jump on this and other Crash.net-like threads.

Like Ciro said in another thread, respect the drivers.

I wish more, not less drivers would speak their mind, no matter what unless it upsets their team or sponsors, and to a lesser extent, the legions of mindless fans out there, who can be separated from the mindful ones quite easily.

What he is doing can be called gamesmanship, planting a bug in the ear of Mclaren. Trying to lite a fire under the ass of Button. Call it what you will, consider the pot stirred.

Seriously, have you ever MET an Aussie? I have yet to meet one who didn't say whatever they wanted whenever they wanted.