Schumacher 20 years on

[marcush.]

Schumacher as all successful drivers is a somewhat controversial person mainly for his stubborn single mindedness that drove him to unbeliveable records unseen before or even thought possible.
Now in his second Formula 1 career a lot of people seem to find a lot of pleasure bashing him for underachieving ,even failing and feel entitled to give advise to stop disgracing himself and call it quits.

For me the fact this guy is in Formula 1 since 20 years and is capable of taking the fight to anyone out there ,proving his talent again and again with outstanding Race first laps I have to say I have deepest respect for his achievements and his attitude fighting through this difficult time for Mercedes .He truly is a team player and really shows class in shrugging off the incompetent accusations towards his person,never falling out in public over his team even when things are going bad or he obviously was let down by the team .
Fact is :not many in the current field or test drivers would do a better job at Mercedes - the two I think would do better are :Hamilton and Alonso.
Considering this I ´d think it should be just bearable for those who cannot get over the apathy they developped over time to watch him compete for one more season and help Mercedes ...
Considering guys like Berger simply had to stop at some point because their body was coping anymore with the stress experienced in the car ,Schumachers performance is surprising.I have to admit I was shocked to see my hero Berger first trounced by Senna and then swapping seats with Schumacher taking success with him.Only then slowly I grew something of a hint of sympathy and respect for that guy from Germany.
The Spa weekend is putting all in a context now even when it seems unlikely that MGP will provide him with a car he deserves this or next year.

[mep]

oh marcush nice move to make a topic to push Schumacher up.
I am just affright it will end in a disastrous driver Jing yang.
It is so strange people can never give him the credit he deserves. There are always people around who state Alonso, Hamilton or Senna are much better. I think it has something to do with the fact that he is German.

I totally agree with you the performance shown by this man is unbelievable. Not just winning an uncountable amount of titles but also staying on top for 20 years is an achievement of its own. Everyone else becomes tired or wasted of F1 but he just runs and runs and runs.
I have highest respect for this man.

[samoth]

Schumacher as all successful drivers is a somewhat controversial person mainly for his stubborn single mindedness that drove him to unbeliveable records unseen before or even thought possible.
Now in his second Formula 1 career a lot of people seem to find a lot of pleasure bashing him for underachieving ,even failing and feel entitled to give advise to stop disgracing himself and call it quits.

For me the fact this guy is in Formula 1 since 20 years and is capable of taking the fight to anyone out there ,proving his talent again and again with outstanding Race first laps I have to say I have deepest respect for his achievements and his attitude fighting through this difficult time for Mercedes .He truly is a team player and really shows class in shrugging off the incompetent accusations towards his person,never falling out in public over his team even when things are going bad or he obviously was let down by the team .
Fact is :not many in the current field or test drivers would do a better job at Mercedes - the two I think would do better are :Hamilton and Alonso.
Considering this I ´d think it should be just bearable for those who cannot get over the apathy they developped over time to watch him compete for one more season and help Mercedes ...
Considering guys like Berger simply had to stop at some point because their body was coping anymore with the stress experienced in the car ,Schumachers performance is surprising.I have to admit I was shocked to see my hero Berger first trounced by Senna and then swapping seats with Schumacher taking success with him.Only then slowly I grew something of a hint of sympathy and respect for that guy from Germany.
The Spa weekend is putting all in a context now even when it seems unlikely that MGP will provide him with a car he deserves this or next year.

Agree absolutely! We have here many Schumacher haters, but that is only jelaous (sry for my english) persons. Laughable her habits for this very great f1 Driver. But they need this, you have it to tolerate. KNow him since his 1985 saw him driving Kart. This guys know nothing about this man. A normal family man. But fire in his competition!

[toshinden]

Frankly, it was the nosecone of the Benetton B192 that lead me to idolize this man. It was at Canada GP 1993 when he chasing Berger to the end. Never crossed in my mind though that this guy can achieve so many till now.

[nipo]

I was really thrilled when he was coming back. I remember to have signed up to this board when Massa had his accident and there was rumor of his comeback, just to express my excitement. I started watching F1 around the beginning of the millenium so it's easy to guess why Schumi was my hero. I grew a passion for Ferrari as well because of him. Both his and Ferrari's name meant winning, domination, speed, success and passion.

But then at the back of my mind I have always had this fear that his comeback will see him produce mediocre results, instead of leading the team to fight for wins and championships. I don't know what he expected of himself but as a fan I was definitely expecting him to at least win some races at some point. Afterall, he's statistically the greatest F1 driver ever and he was joining the freshly crowned WCC team.

And then we all saw what happened in 2010. It was worse than I had ever imagined. He was constantly out-qualified and out-raced by Rosberg, and it seemed that anyone on the grid can pass him on track with ease. The tell-tale clue came from his long-time mate Ross Brawn who frankly admitted that Michael was the same in high speed turns but was lacking quite a lot in slow corners. He even went on to say if it was someone else, he might not have given him the 2011 seat.

It was quite sad to see, really.

He had given up a good "retirement plan" at Ferrari. He was basically going to be the living legend for the brand, and just hanging around with the company would have ensured him good status and good paychecks for the rest of his life. Add to that he would always be remembered as the great champion, whom at 37 (was it?) was still at his prime and fighting for the crown until the very last race of his career.

Now what? He joined Merc which I hate as a road car maker. The dumb SLS driving-upside-down-in-a-tunnel ad didn't deserve a driver like him in it (for God's sake he had a special black FXX given to him when he was still at Ferrari). The struggling MGPs are not machines worthy of his drive either.

But the most important thing is: his game was over and he seems just an out-of-shape old fart on track, letting all the young guns pick on him.

How sad...

Well, having said all that he seems to be (finally) gaining a bit of traction this season. He's not so far behind Nico now and gets overtaken less. His most recent form at Spa is also very comforting, if I may use the word. For sure nobody will be counting on him to shoot for an 8th crown next season but I wish there is hope that maybe a win is possible.

Still, I'd rather he hasn't come out of retirement. Whichever way you look at it, it's a great loss for him.

[dave34m]

I was really thrilled when he was coming back. I remember to have signed up to this board when Massa had his accident and there was rumor of his comeback, just to express my excitement. I started watching F1 around the beginning of the millenium so it's easy to guess why Schumi was my hero. I grew a passion for Ferrari as well because of him. Both his and Ferrari's name meant winning, domination, speed, success and passion.

But then at the back of my mind I have always had this fear that his comeback will see him produce mediocre results, instead of leading the team to fight for wins and championships. I don't know what he expected of himself but as a fan I was definitely expecting him to at least win some races at some point. Afterall, he's statistically the greatest F1 driver ever and he was joining the freshly crowned WCC team.

And then we all saw what happened in 2010. It was worse than I had ever imagined. He was constantly out-qualified and out-raced by Rosberg, and it seemed that anyone on the grid can pass him on track with ease. The tell-tale clue came from his long-time mate Ross Brawn who frankly admitted that Michael was the same in high speed turns but was lacking quite a lot in slow corners. He even went on to say if it was someone else, he might not have given him the 2011 seat.

It was quite sad to see, really.

He had given up a good "retirement plan" at Ferrari. He was basically going to be the living legend for the brand, and just hanging around with the company would have ensured him good status and good paychecks for the rest of his life. Add to that he would always be remembered as the great champion, whom at 37 (was it?) was still at his prime and fighting for the crown until the very last race of his career.

Now what? He joined Merc which I hate as a road car maker. The dumb SLS driving-upside-down-in-a-tunnel ad didn't deserve a driver like him in it (for God's sake he had a special black FXX given to him when he was still at Ferrari). The struggling MGPs are not machines worthy of his drive either.

But the most important thing is: his game was over and he seems just an out-of-shape old fart on track, letting all the young guns pick on him.

How sad...

Well, having said all that he seems to be (finally) gaining a bit of traction this season. He's not so far behind Nico now and gets overtaken less. His most recent form at Spa is also very comforting, if I may use the word. For sure nobody will be counting on him to shoot for an 8th crown next season but I wish there is hope that maybe a win is possible.


Still, I'd rather he hasn't come out of retirement. Whichever way you look at it, it's a great loss for him.

Very good read, it sums up his come back very nicely, actually based on facts rather than the fan boy stuff above. It has been sad and painful to watch at times.

[andartop]

With the rapid changes in the cars, tires and regulations between seasons, we have seen many drivers struggle when they come back into the sport after any period of time or even when they change teams. Villeneuve and Fisichella spring to mind. Lack of testing, which is in my opinion the silliest, most dangerous, unreasonable and unsportsmanlike rule ever imposed in F1 does not help either.
The thing is, expectations were never going to be met since the guy has such an unbeliveable record. Even if he managed to get a few wins, critics would be saying that he should have won the WDC.
In his first year at Merc he really struggled to get used to the car and tires, but still did show some of his old brilliance, such as by that "controversial" overtaking move on Alonso at Monaco.
This year though he seems so much better. Canada and Spa are good examples, as well as the first laps in Valencia.
People may say he is ridiculing himself, but I think he is enjoying it.

[marcush.]

Everyone should take a rest and watch.
I think Michael did never expect to come back only circumstances opened this window.Had he known how bad W01 or W02 would come out ..no ways he would have done this .
He knew Brawn ,he had that feeling for Mercedes making this career possible ..it all seemed to fit perfectly and being already a legend that would definetly put him a step higher than he already was + he now has the chance to redress the perception he left with people in the world .
The biggest part of it all is of course the love for driving these things competitively.
He is an out and out racer..obviously he takes more satisfaction from a fight from zero to 5th than beating his teammate in Qualy..
Lay back and enjoy..theres more to come he will NOT disappoint .to me the comeback has picked up speed surprisingly slow ,expectations were just unrealistic .
Age ,you can scratch this issue after the races he has shown this year.He is eye to eye with Rosberg .give the guy a break for not coming to terms with Rosbergs qualy speed ,something he can accept today and this shows just how great the guy is .Everyone else would be knocked off being beaten by the teammate in every Qualy .And what does Schumacher? smiles and bangs out another textbook first lap making up all he may have left on the table in Q.He´s good for the sport and good for Vettel,Hamilton ,Alonso,Rosberg Button etc .The value of their achievements is rising and after that race the question is now not will he win again but :will Mercedes get their act together and produce a car worthy of their two drivers...
performances like this inevitably rise the game of all teammembers.They have been reminded that Schumacher will deliver given half a chance .DRS is not really helping as defending is now not a possibility and not useful finesse anymore but he has adapted very well to that change.

[Tyler]

Well done to Marcush and the other guys on here sticking up for Schumi.
I'm honestly not surprised how things are going at the moment at all.
Firstly Schumi was away for 3 years plus he's no longer in his twenties and you adjust slower the older you get. For him to be away so long and then come back and immediately be at the front competing with guys 20 years younger was to me always unrealistic. I half expected a much longer adjustment period and I think his recent performances are showing he's starting to get his mojo back again. Noone can deny the sheer excellence of Sundays drive. I think with more performances like this and the team hopefully building a better car more suited to him, he'll gain back a lot of his confidence and the old Schumi will be back.
The fact that he can, in his forties, compete with a very fast albeit underrated driver (who in my mind is right up there with the best) who is almost twenty years younger is astounding.You do lose a lot with age, this is a fact of life but even still I believe Schumi is brilliant enough to catch and eventually overtake Rosberg in performance.
Even if he doesn't - so what! it was still an achievement to be so competitive at that age. Let's see if Hamilton and Webber for e.g. are competitive in 20 years time - if not will we mock them and claim they were never good to begin with? Was Mansell just lucky in his day because his comeback failed?
The most pathetic argument I have ever heard and one which I absolutely can't stand because noone should deny a great man of such unbelievable achievements, is the argument that Schumi was never that good, he just had rubbish competition.
What a load of bull!!!!!!
Let's not forget, this was a guy who was able to outqualify Senna and Prost.
I can't stand this argument because it is based on zero facts and makes a mockery of not only Schumi's achievements but also such greats as Hakkinen.
Fact is Schumacher has raced and won against everyone from Senna and Prost through to Hakkinen, Montoya, Raikonnen,Button, Webber etc.
Were all these guys rubbish when Schumi took the title whilst competiting against them?
Geez it's a wonder Hakkinen even got a drive - imagine how slow this guy was to be beaten by the rubbish Schumacher.
In fact Schumacher also raced and beat 10 of the current grid in 2006.
Fine - argue that he's lost it with age or something to that effect if you will but don't diminish a man's achievements by claiming he had no decent competition when nothing could be further from the truth.
That's just disgraceful in my opinion.
You get to race against a lot of class over 20 years and Schumi has raced more than his share of greats to go down in history as a great man regardless of what happens from here!

[marcush.]

anyone watched the Schubert Anniversary Helmet video i have posted in the video section ? cool item and worth watching (apart from the promo babble at the end)?

[strad]

I can't believe what a changed person Michael is. He may not be on the top of his form, but he is far more bearable as a person.

[Morteza]

anyone watched the Schubert Anniversary Helmet video i have posted in the video section ? cool item and worth watching (apart from the promo babble at the end)?

I watched it. Found it very interesting cause I hadn't seen how they paint a helmet. It was an absolutely nice way to celebrate his 20th anniversary.

[Mandrake]

I can't believe what a changed person Michael is. He may not be on the top of his form, but he is far more bearable as a person.

He's indeed changed a lot, but I'm 99,98% sure he won't be as bearable when he's fighting for the title again He won't accept blame for any incident as quickly as he does now, I guess that's in the nature of things

[marcush.]

Hey Schumi is like us : a race maniac and a down to earth man .I think a lot of his perception in the world is owed to the fact he had to fight it out with Hill in 94 and the media hyped up verything.
True he was just too eager and stubborn ,but Senna was no different ,you could say Senna was a lot more offensive in talking ,remmber an interview with Stewart when he really got derailled ....
Now he is not a boy anymore being sucked into Formula 1 and not having time to mature out of the limelight.He has nothing to prove to the world anymore and can easily live with Laudas comments or can admit he was wrong in a situation.
He is really now a great man outside the cockpit and a true champ .I feel this second career will in the end round up the career of Michael Schumacher and not remove but mellow the failings he obviously had and make him more of a legend .No doubt he will bag a podium soon -as luck comes to those who work hard and never give up- and I feel this is when we will see if Schumacher of new is for real or he will never change .
my view.

[mach11]

Marcush. - Hats off.... I really appreciate you and all the others in this thread to have sided with Michael Schumacher.

I too started watching Formula 1 from 2000 and I had tremendous respect for him and Ferrari. And even today he is a pleasure to watch.

A racer wants to win every situation that he is in and wants to be first. Schumacher does that. And that attitude can never leave him. That is his character.

What ever we say, Michael Schumacher would have thought about his past, his achievements, his reputation and he took the decision to come back. For me, that is the most crucial part. And I salute him for that.

A few incidents in his past are coming back to haunt him. His bad boy racing moves on the track are no longer accepted as people begin to complain about it. Move back years and you can see how drivers fight it out on the track. Those days, moves like what he did with alonso in Monaco or one with Barichello in hungary would have been applauded.

He has been a legend and has dominated in 2 era's of formula 1. And I do not see that happen in the near future.

Coming to his role in the Mercedes Team:

Though we would all like him to win the WDC, let us take a moment to compare similarities with the RedBull team a few years. They too signed an experienced driver like David Coulthard to develop the team, work on improving the car and also a few aspects in the team like driver feedback elements, technical know how etc. The same is happening in Mercedes and who better to have than the best driver that Formula 1 has ever seen. I remember in one instance where he corrects a over steering car at the back straight in sepang at 300 kmph while taking to his engineer about strategy and timings of his rivals.

Patience is the key. If Ross Brawn and Michael are patient and believe that the WDC is possible then we got to wait and watch. It will happen.