F1 simulator with 5g load - a discussion

[jamsbong]

Hi guys,

F1 simulator is essential for drivers these days but with all the realism. There is one bit that can't be simulated. The 5g loadings.

I suggest that it is possible to have such simulator by attaching the simulator pod onto a spinning arm. The spinning arm is similar to the ones used in airforce and nasa with a few difference. The pod is allowed to rotate to simulate the G-load at different directions. The pod is also able to move away/towards the centre to change the G-load magnitude. The arm will have to be very long to minimise the consequential effect of rotation feeling at low G.

What do you think? I think it will be too expensive to build and the teams won't like that. I'm not sure how effective it is in terms of changing G load and direction of load.

[flynfrog]

the pod would need to rotate different directions very quickly I've been playing with this idea in my head for a while

[Jersey Tom]

Words to live by - return on investment.

With all these fancy things... the question to ask is, "Why bother?"

[flynfrog]

Words to live by - return on investment.

With all these fancy things... the question to ask is, "Why bother?"

because its there.

[bizadfar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuleS9rnzc


Similar principle?

[CHT]

Perhaps F1 should invest in camera technology that can bring the "g" closer to home rather than trying to push more Gs out of the car.

One possible technology is to introduce 3D onboard camera.

[Tim.Wright]

I don't think you need the acceleration magnitude to match the real car.

Accuracy of the direction of the acceleration I feel is more important. I would also put accuracy of rotational movements as infinitely more important for the driver than the lateral or long accelerations.

Cameras wont help there. The driver feedback would come mostly from things he "feels". If you can't get that feel right (which is connected to accelerations, displacements etc) then you might as well be running a simulation without the driver.

Tim

[raymondu999]

The centrifuge would also need to change rpm very quickly. For example somewhere like 130R, you'd only be at first getting what, 0.2, 0.3G, from acceleration? Then suddenly it's a sideways acceleration

[Ogami musashi]

It exists...for fighter jets tactical simulators. Simulators coupled with centrifuge;

It works well despite some little lags.
It is just the begining of such things so many progresses are under way

It is of course completly impractical for individuals.

[scarbs]

From my experience driving an f1 simulator, I dont think the missing "G" load is a problem.

[WhiteBlue]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfuleS9rnzc


Similar principle?

That is a nice facility for engine testing. It speaks reams that it is used for sports car engines in order to simulate pitch and roll influence on lubrication delivery. Amazing what the industry does to test engines pre road and circuit tests.

I would think that cost control will be an issue when it comes to considering the use of centrifuged simulation in F1. If FOTA suppresses it they can keep their cost down. If one uses it and others follow you pretty soon have higher cost for all and no other benefit.

I would think that FOTA will not see expensive simulation technology as a proper field to gain competitive advantages.

[marekk]

No way to properly simulate crucial change of direction using centrifuge - not quite powerful enough to change the speed from lets say 50 km/h (4G at 5m arm) to zero and back to 50km/h in fractions of seconds.

Still theoretically possible if they use 5-axis robot placed on linear rails (there are in industrial use some heavy-duty models working with > 10G), but to simulate turn 8 in Istanbul, one have to accelerate at 4G for about 8s, with no breaking (robots deceleration) involved, so you will end up above the speed of sound. And one needs quite long rails

[volarchico]

It exists...for fighter jets tactical simulators. Simulators coupled with centrifuge;

It works well despite some little lags.
It is just the begining of such things so many progresses are under way

It is of course completly impractical for individuals.

But my guess is for a fighter jet, it only simulates positive G's of various levels, whereas an F1 simulator would need to simulate positive (acceleration), negative (braking), and lateral in TWO directions (cornering)...impossible? Definitely not practical...

[Tim.Wright]

Remember at the end of the day you are reproducing accelerations which are obviously derived from position. Unless your rig moves a car in exactly the same trajectory as it would on the track, the resulting accelerations will only ever be an approximation.

Like any engineering work, you only need enough detail for it to be useful. There is no point chasing 5G of lat and long acceleration because it would mean building a simulator room as big as the racetrack for very little return in simulator performance. At that point it would be cheaper to build a track indoors and run the car there.

Tim

[hardingfv32]

What is the human perception trick that makes long accelerations possible in these simulators without much actual movement?

Something about moving at a speed that we sense and returning back to the starting point without us sensing that movement using a different speed.

Brian