F1 Safety Car vs DTM MERC

[kenshaaka]

Which is faster?

[Richard]

Surely the DTM? It is after all a thoroughbred race car with a road car body shell. Meanwhile the SLS F1 safety car is a road car that happens to go very fast.

Of course it should be easy is someone can find comparable laptimes for DTM and SLS on the same track. Surely they have both done the Nürburgring? I'm sure a google will find the answer for you.

Here's the answer, I was wrong:

7:40 Mercedes SLS AMG (20.6km lap)
7:44 Mercedes SLS AMG (20.8km lap)
7:54 Mercedes CLK DTM AMG (unknown lap length)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N% ... _lap_times

[Tim.Wright]

Its quite common for road going sports cars to have more power than their track racing counterparts which often are restricted. The race cars make the time back by being lighter and using better tyres.

The SLS (safety car) has 571hp and is 1600kg. The C-class DTM breathes through 2x28mm restrictors and produces only 500hp which is 71hp less than the SLS but its about 600kg lighter and uses slick tyres.

Im actually quite surprised (and suspiscious) of the laptimes there. I would expect the DTM car to be faster on balance.

Tim

[FrukostScones]

DTM is surely faster than the safetycar I think.
The Mercedes CLK DTM AMG is a road car! Not a DTM car.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The current racing DTM will be closer to low 7mins or even high 6mins. It has less weight and far more downforce even tho it's giving away 100hp.

The SLS in standard guise is not a racer and was never meant to be. GT yes, I'm surprised it actually beats the SLR time....

[Richard]

The Mercedes CLK DTM AMG is a road car! Not a DTM car.

tsk - pesky marketing folk sticking DTM badges on road cars!

My neighbour has a C class AMG. Standard diesel engine, standard gearbox, standard brakes. However it has fancy rims and a few bits of plastic stuck on the bodywork. That apparently classes it as an AMG even though it is no different in performance to a standard C Class diesel.

As I recall, BMW have managed to protect their M brand from this, an M will always be the high performance option in the range, not lipstick on a pig.

[Pandamasque]

As I recall, BMW have managed to protect their M brand from this, an M will always be the high performance option in the range, not lipstick on a pig.

You mean like the M-pack available for pretty much everything including SUVs? They call it JOY.

[Richard]

Is it true that only a true performance BMW 3 series gets to be called an M3. A normal 323 with an M pack is still badged 323?

I recall (but could be wrong) that Merc stick AMG badges on their cars a little more freely.

[scuderiafan]

In a straight line? Safety car. Around the track (say, the Nurburgring GP circuit), DTM. I think on the Nordschleife, the safety car would be faster, simply because it would make up a lot of time on the straights, and the DTM car has to worry about bottoming out and damaging the suspension, where the SLS would be more forgiving.

[Giblet]

Is it true that only a true performance BMW 3 series gets to be called an M3. A normal 323 with an M pack is still badged 323?

I recall (but could be wrong) that Merc stick AMG badges on their cars a little more freely.

If your car has an AMG badge, then the engine was 'hand built' and signed by the 'builder'. Everything else is trim level.

[Mandrake]

In a straight line? Safety car. Around the track (say, the Nurburgring GP circuit), DTM. I think on the Nordschleife, the safety car would be faster, simply because it would make up a lot of time on the straights, and the DTM car has to worry about bottoming out and damaging the suspension, where the SLS would be more forgiving.

I disagree with your NoS theory. The DTM car would be a lot faster because given the proper setup (ride height etc.)
Sure, the HP figures help on the uphill straights, but at Kesselchen the DTM car would make any disadvantage it may have invalid just in the "Mutkurve".....also the technical section from Hohe Acht onwards is DTM car territory until after Galgenkopf

We raced in an empty Golf 2 with Semi slicks on the NoS, in the whole section I mentioned, a stock Porsche GT3 could not really run away from us (ok, we were most likely pushing more than the Porsche driver). As soon as it went straight though, he was never seen again. The HP differential is not large enough between the DTM and SLS to let the SLS run away enough.

[raymondu999]

Isn't the safety car based on DTM cars? I seem to remember that a few years ago the safety car was practically DTM spec; though my memory could be fooling me.

[CMSMJ1]

Surely the DTM? It is after all a thoroughbred race car with a road car body shell. Meanwhile the SLS F1 safety car is a road car that happens to go very fast.

Of course it should be easy is someone can find comparable laptimes for DTM and SLS on the same track. Surely they have both done the Nürburgring? I'm sure a google will find the answer for you.

Here's the answer, I was wrong:

7:40 Mercedes SLS AMG (20.6km lap)
7:44 Mercedes SLS AMG (20.8km lap)
7:54 Mercedes CLK DTM AMG (unknown lap length)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_N% ... _lap_times

The DTM cars use the VLN course for the 'ring - combined of the short version GP track and the Nordschleife.

There is no doubt that a DTM car is faster than the Safety car.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

+1 CMSMJ1

The DTM car would eat the SLS for breakfast.

A fairer comparison would be the SLS GT3 vs the DTM machine. Both racing cars.
You only need to look at the Nissan gtr time of 7:20 to see that the SLS is not about being the quickest track car.
Interesting also that during a track day at mallory park a few weeks back they had both these cars on track.
The GTR wiped the floor with the mercedes, and allegedly has 100bhp less.

[Mandrake]

The DTM cars use the VLN course for the 'ring - combined of the short version GP track and the Nordschleife.

There is no doubt that a DTM car is faster than the Safety car.

When did the DTM cars ever use the VLN Layout? I'd be the first going there to watch it! (talking about the "new" DTM)....but I'm afraid you're mistaken here.