Future of the "new" teams?

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Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:07 am

2012 will be the 3rd seasons for new entrants Caterham, Marrusia and HRT and it does seems that all 3 new teams are most likely to continue occupying the back end of the grid again.

I am just wondering what are the prospect for these teams to stick around if they are unable to move up to challenge the mid field teams, which in general are better funded and equipped.
CHT
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008

Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 4:58 am

The funny thing is that all 3 of them have changed names at least once in these 3 years.

But it looks like Caterham is the only serious player, the other two can barely pass crash tests.
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mx_tifoso
 
Joined: 30 Nov 2006
Location: North America

Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:10 am

mx_tifoso wrote:The funny thing is that all 3 of them have changed names at least once in these 3 years.

But it looks like Caterham is the only serious player, the other two can barely pass crash tests.


Agree completely. Furthermore, IMHO I see these teams (my focus is Marussia and HRT) adding very little (dare I say "nothing"?) to the sport or spectacle of F1. If they disappear tomorrow, F1 would lose very close to nothing at all.
Enzo Ferrari was a great man. But he was not a good man. -- Phil Hill
donskar
 
Joined: 3 Feb 2007
Location: Cardboard box, end of Boulevard of Broken Dreams

Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:31 am

donskar wrote:
mx_tifoso wrote:The funny thing is that all 3 of them have changed names at least once in these 3 years.

But it looks like Caterham is the only serious player, the other two can barely pass crash tests.


Agree completely. Furthermore, IMHO I see these teams (my focus is Marussia and HRT) adding very little (dare I say "nothing"?) to the sport or spectacle of F1. If they disappear tomorrow, F1 would lose very close to nothing at all.



Fans maybe, but it will be bad for team like Caterham or even mid field team, as they will be demoted to last or near last place on the grid.
CHT
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008

Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:51 am

It depends. If the presence of the new teams helps increase the viewership (for ex. Marussia, which will attract a lot of Russian viewers), then it's obviously good for the sport's revenue. But anyways, I don't think these teams would continue participating in F1 on the longer run. This has always been the trend (apart from few exceptions). A new team turns up in F1 and after 3-4 seasons it disappears. Even in case of Force India, they are concerned about the amount of expenditure that the team has to incur as compared to the return. Luckily for FI, they have some good financial backers to sustain that much loss and still continue running in F1. If you have a budget like the Red Bull and a clear ambition of winning, then that's a different scenario altogether.
banibhusan
 
Joined: 6 Aug 2008

Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:20 am

While I don't want to refer to either HRT or Marussia as a disgrace, there's very little else that can be said on their behalf. 2012 will mark the third time in as many years that HRT will show up for the first round of the Championship having never turned a lap with its car. They employ one of the very dimmest stars in contemporary F1 history solely due to his backing from an international conglomerate. Their other driver is on the wrong side of 40 and has never exactly set the world on fire with his talent as a racer.

"ManorVirginMarussia" isn't all that much better. Contrary to common sense engineering, they employed a very ill-advised method for the design of their car. That's its fuel tank then proved to be too small to carry out its lone function should tell you everything else you need to know.

Caterham, on the other hand, is rewriting the manual for how a start-up race team should operate. They have an owner who just seems to "get it," an accomplished technical director who's nonetheless composing the magnum opus of his long career, and a race-winning driver who's proven to be a powerful force in the development of their cars and who never, ever lets up in a race. They have legitimate blue chip sponsorship that's never cast even the shadow of a doubt on the team's future, and there's no reason to believe that this is going to change anytime soon. Even the complete destruction of an initial business plan based around the Lotus brand didn't slow them down for a second. If anything, the team is actually stronger.
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006

Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:15 am

Tony Fernandez doesnt look like a person who is willing to pump in big money into his team and IIRC sometime last year, he was quoted as saying that the team will have to move up or else he might reevaluate this plan.

I believe the bluechip sponsorship you are referring to is General Electric? that sponsorship is most likely to be related to Tony's AirAsia business with GE engine, hence my guess is it is unlikely be any significant. Have anyone seen any GE advertisement featuring Lotus/Caterham?
CHT
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008

Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 10:03 am

Tony Fernandes also doesn't look like someone who would cut off his nose to spite his face. The brains trust - and I use that term loosely - at HRT and ManorVirginMarussia do it annually.

And I'd definitely take GE, Dell/Intel, and CNN, in any capacity, over the other new teams' sponsors, none of whom I know save for Virgin and Tata.
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006

Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:01 am

IMO HRT nor Virgin(or whatever) haven't got any better then the first day they started. While we look at HRT as a shambles who for some reason seem to be unable to get a car ready in time, Virgin still manage to finish below them both years.

I think that unless there is a noticeable improvement by then end of this year its time to move on and allow two new teams to have ago.

Caterham are the only team for me which in the next few year I can see moving up the grid. Perhaps the rule changes in 2014 will be when this will happen.
astracrazy
 
Joined: 4 Mar 2009

Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:10 am

Well HR & Marussia might last for a couple of years but for the long term I dont see them having any positive impact.

I wnat HONDA,TOYOTA,BMW to return & hopefully VW or Audi as well. It is very unlikely. VW is the only possibility,they are rumours of them coming in 2018. Long way off,but if they come into F1 it will be with a Solid Long Term plan,not buying a team like to HRT to struggle at the rear of the field.

The maximum possible grid should have 13 teams right??? HRT & Marussia can f*** off & there is 1 Free Slot left now. So I would be very happy if VW,Audi,Toyota or BMW come back. A Manufacturer ward would be awesome.
Mr.S
 
Joined: 9 Apr 2011

Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 11:29 am

The best thing that can happen to HRT/Marussia, Caterham, and perhaps even Sauber/Williams (blasphemy, I know) is that they get bought out by the factory teams that Mr.S has stated. Then, with the foundation of a team coupled with the financial might, in-roads to the top teams can be better made.

Another option, though much less able to be put into action, is to have these last four cars (or even more if Bernie wants to fill out the grid) be, essentially, a GP2.5 series, where these backmarkers are some of the top drivers in GP2 and the cars aren't as far off the pace as the GP2 cars. With a single F1 management, these young drivers can have a more serious taste of the F1 pace. I'm sure the sponsors would be willing to pay to have their lad/lass be put into those cockpits.

Ludicrous, I know. I just watched the recap of the 1967 GP where the field was increased with 7 F2(?) cars. I also think that considering that HRT/Virgin are bleeding money, it would be good to put their F1 level development into bringing young drivers into the big leagues. Considering how many young drivers were paid to be test drivers and reserve drivers, would it be that much of a stretch?

Edit: Big ol' 200th post.
RB7ate9
 
Joined: 13 Jul 2011

Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:22 pm

Mr.S wrote:I wnat HONDA,TOYOTA,BMW to return & hopefully VW or Audi as well. It is very unlikely. VW is the only possibility,they are rumours of them coming in 2018. Long way off,but if they come into F1 it will be with a Solid Long Term plan,not buying a team like to HRT to struggle at the rear of the field.

Let me understand this: you want on F1 the three constructors that withdraw from F1 without any reasons

:roll: :roll:


Trocola
Trocola
 
Joined: 25 Jan 2012
Location: Madrid, Spain

Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:35 pm

I dont understand why they have had soo many name changes,

Campos Meta GP - Hispania Racing team - HRT F1 Team

Manor GP - Virgin Racing - Marussia Virgin Racing - Marussia F1 Team

Lotus F1 Racing - Lotus Racing - Team Lotus - Caterham
Budding F1 Engineer
N12ck
 
Joined: 19 Dec 2010

Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 7:39 pm

Honda, Toyota and BMW served no purpose in F1 except to drive up the cost of competing for everyone else. I was not sad to see them go, and, in fact, I was particularly pleased that BMW did so after having fallen flat on its face. It seems karma didn't take too kindly to Williams being thrown under the bus.

RB7ate9 wrote:Another option, though much less able to be put into action, is to have these last four cars (or even more if Bernie wants to fill out the grid) be, essentially, a GP2.5 series [...]

Moseley proposed something similar before he got spanked into retirement. He suggested that F1 and presumably GP2, F2, or F3 institute a system of promotion and relegation similar to that found in association football leagues. It didn't take very long at all to see just how bad of an idea that was.
bhall
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2006

Post Tue Feb 28, 2012 8:37 pm

I look at Force India as a prime example of how to get things done. They were a bit of a laughing stock around the internet before they entered.
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Giblet
 
Joined: 19 Mar 2007
Location: Downtown Canada

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