## Championship points system - what is it based on?

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Hi,

This is something that I have wondered for a very long time. My question is, how are the points decided for each points paying position, and perhaps to further expand on this, how are the number of points paying positions decided (eg currently the first 10)

I remember hearing or reading a long time ago, that the ultimate aim for a driver in a race series is consistency, and thus the points system should relfect that.

This does not seem to add up to what the current F1 points system rewards you with.

To simplify things, let's look at a 6 race series with the current points system, and compare two drivers. If my calculations are correct, if one driver was to finish 1st, 4th, 1st, 4th, 1st, 4th, he would beat the other driver who finished 2nd in every race, even though the second driver achieved better consistency.

It seems it favours inconsistency, and a system that would give, for example, 10 points for 1st, 9 for 2nd, 8 for 3rd etc. although not favouring consistency, would favour inconsistency to the very least.

Now, perhaps the ultimate aim that I mentioned above is not correct, in which case, what is the points system based on, and how are the gaps between the points in each position decided? Of course, logic tells me that the points for first position are fairly arbitrary, so long as the required points intervals between positions remain as integers. Basically, how are these integers decided.

she_spools_180
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Joined: 22 Mar 2011

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Who wants a championship winner that hasn't won a race?
spinmastermic
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Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Location: Dark places

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Let's go with the premise the 2008 system (10 8 6 5 4 3 2 1) promoted consistency.

Somebody on this forum tallied the 2012 season using the 2008 season points and found that the overall order was largely the same, except that there was a slightly larger gap between a win and second place. So overall the 2012 points promote consistency but with slight emphasis on winning.
Slife
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Joined: 1 May 2009

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spinmastermic wrote:Who wants a championship winner that hasn't won a race?

Good point. That seems to answer the question about consistency: not desirable.

So in that case, what do they base the points system on?
she_spools_180
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Joined: 22 Mar 2011

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I think the switch came with the raft of changes in 2009 to make it more demanding to win races, as a win would put you 7 points up on 2nd. Bear in mind, this was also made at a time when Bernie suggested a medals system where the person who had the most "win" medals won the WDC, and I'm guessing the total medals only counted towards the WCC.

The current system could have been a very blessed compromise vs. pre-2009 system and that unholy medal system.
RB7ate9
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Joined: 13 Jul 2011

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Sometimes I think they take a leaf from the 12th Man:
by multiplying the number of balls bowled, by the number of balls faced. Then dividing that figure by the average age of the batting side, minus, the number of spanners in a sidchrome tool kit.
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Cam
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Joined: 2 Mar 2012

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It came about after Massa lost the championship to Hamilton, but had won more races that season. Many argued he 'should' have won it because he won the most races, which is ridiculous really. So Bernie came up with the idea of medals, which basically means the driver that wins the most races wins the title. Pretty much everyone rejected that idea, but agreed a change was needed to try and promote winning a race over simply driving around in 2nd or 3rd just to bag the points. Hence the current system, that awards significantly more points for a race win.

I think the new system works, and as other have pointed out overall results don't really differ from previous systems. I do feel the current system allows a championship to very quickly become a runaway if a driver has a string of success, like Vettel last year; or a string of bad luck in the case of someone chasing the leader, like Button this year.
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Diesel
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Joined: 11 Mar 2006
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Diesel wrote:It came about after Massa lost the championship to Hamilton, but had won more races that season. Many argued he 'should' have won it because he won the most races, which is ridiculous really. So Bernie came up with the idea of medals, which basically means the driver that wins the most races wins the title. Pretty much everyone rejected that idea, but agreed a change was needed to try and promote winning a race over simply driving around in 2nd or 3rd just to bag the points. Hence the current system, that awards significantly more points for a race win.

I think the new system works, and as other have pointed out overall results don't really differ from previous systems. I do feel the current system allows a championship to very quickly become a runaway if a driver has a string of success, like Vettel last year; or a string of bad luck in the case of someone chasing the leader, like Button this year.

Ah. Thank you for the elucidation. I would "+1" you, but apparently I can't yet. So taking the time to write out my appreciation must suffice.
RB7ate9
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Joined: 13 Jul 2011

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the new point system´s main reason for existing has actually to do with overtaking believe it or not.

It really has nothing to do with Massa in 2008 but instead drivers would be "happy" to stay in their position because they knew it just wasn´t worth it to overtake the next guy because it would equate to one point or so.

With the new system it´s designed to encourage driver´s to overtake because there´s now actually something to gain from it.
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Nando
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Joined: 10 Mar 2012

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Slife wrote:Let's go with the premise the 2008 system (10 8 6 5 4 3 2 1) promoted consistency.

Somebody on this forum tallied the 2012 season using the 2008 season points and found that the overall order was largely the same, except that there was a slightly larger gap between a win and second place. So overall the 2012 points promote consistency but with slight emphasis on winning.

That's me, in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=12711

Ironically instead of rewarding victories it's more that, compared to the old system, it hurts 2nd place.

It's a prettyequal increase of 2.5x across the board, except for P2.

Here's comparing, as normalised by multiplying to 2.5

Old points (new)
25 (25)
20 (18)
15 (15)
12.5 (12)
10 (10)
7.5 (8)
5 (6)
2.5 (4)
0 (2)
0 (1)

It has to be a balance. If we had a season of 20 races... And 19 different winners (one double winner).

The double winner has 2 wins, and has all 3rd places. Another has 1 win, and all 2nd places. Which should be champ?

Basically IMO the points is arbitrary - but any points system will be. But someone has to make the call on the system, to make sure everyone operates on the same assumptions of what's more important (win, or consistency?)

If I created my own system, I'd personally like to see something closer to an geometric scale, where each position is worth twice the next positions. Ie 2 2nd places is worth 1 win, 4 3rds is a win, etc etc.

raymondu999
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Joined: 4 Feb 2010

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Nando and Diesel are both right. In the old points system there wasn't enough of an incentive to try to improve position.
thearmofbarlow
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Joined: 23 Feb 2012

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I think the current points system still doesn't reward passing enough. I think a points system where the points double for each two places gained would make sense. Something like:
`.1st - 32 2nd - 24 3rd - 16 4th - 12 5th -  8 6th -  6 7th -  4 8th -  3 9th -  210th -  1`
pob
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Joined: 4 Jul 2010

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That would work. The system they use now is more geared for the top spots.
With almost the same gap 1-2 as in your point system.

Although i think the bottom of it would need some tweaking.

10th - 1 point
8th - 3 points
"Il Phenomeno" - The one they fear the most!

"2% of the world's population own 50% of the world's wealth."
Nando
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Joined: 10 Mar 2012

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Would having points for the entire field be good? The back teams are fighting very hard and when they have 0 after 10 races, there's no way of seeing who's actually outperforming, even though some are. It would also give all drivers incentive to finish a race instead of retiring to get a new gearbox or exploit other loopholes, when they are out of the points at the end of a race. When a championship is very close, every driver will fight for every point.

Maybe also some points could be awarded for qualifying, that would stop drivers not throwing everything at that too. Currently, some drivers are content to be mid field for the sake of saving tyres - if they knew that decision would also cost them a possible 10 points, maybe they would re-think their strategy.

F1 is about achieving and pushing the limit, so anything that rewards teams moving in this direction would be great. Having all teams earn points is also a very simple way for most fans to judge performance at a quick glance.
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Cam
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Joined: 2 Mar 2012

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The championship point system change came about in the 2010 season and not the 2009 season . It was a copy of the WRC system of 2009 which was agreed by the FIA and the teams and the two addition position of points ie 9 and 10 th was a welcome for the back runner and mid field teams .

This system was recommended after many drivers were driving conservatively because an overtake will only get him an additional point also now there is more emphasis on winning rather than coming as 2nd hence 7 point gap is ideal though I would prefer 19 for second because 3 point difference is less for 2nd and 3rd positions .The Massa 08 was also a reason that FIA decided to change the championship point scoring system for all the championships .
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