Run-Off Area Alternatives

[Cam]

That is not a good idea IMO. Much to complicated with too much opportunity to go wrong.

It's almost exactly the system that is used at the starting grid for every GP except you link it to the throttle too. Dead easy to do and very little to go wrong. If you're worried that the ECU might trigger by accident, then just have it light a light on the wheel informing the driver to back off the throttle. Log the event and the driver's action. Easy to interogate afterwards if required.

A hell of a lot easy and cheaper to implement than some of the ideas being put around in this thread and it has the benefit of not altering the track adversely for other users e.g. motorbikes.

With the drivers already having less and less to do with the overall operating of the car, having a system that overrides the driver control is not good, both for the show, the spirit of racing and also for safety. Imagine a situation whereby a car takes over and the driver 'needs' to take avoiding action, the ECU will override those driver actions and possibly cause a greater incident. Wherever possible, the driver needs to be completely in charge of the vehicle and responsible for its actions - otherwise you may as well just get robots in and be done with it.

[netoperek]

Good example being latest MGP vs HRT clash

[bhall]

I agree that drivers should have full control of their cars at all times, under all circumstances. But, I see no reason not to use technology similar to that being discussed here to instead enforce the rules regarding the boundaries of the track. That's the real issue anyway. No one wants to eliminate run-off areas to add danger to the sport; they want to do so to provide a real penalty for breaking the rules.

To that end, I'd propose that each off-track excursion, unless prompted by mechanical failure or accident aversion, adds one second to a driver's time at the end of the race. Every time. Take it out of the steward's hands, because they're often reluctant to enforce the boundaries of the track because the most common penalty, a drive-through, is often way too harsh. I completely understand that, too. The issue, though, is that it's created an environment where penalties are the exception rather than the rule, and the problem just gets worse because of it.

[pyrosian]

In some of the Aussie V8 supercar races they have a sensor loop of sorts in the chicanes, i think each driver gets to put more then half their car over that line 5 times in a race if they go over again its a drive through penalty. Such a system could work but i don't think it would be cheap to implement.

[Cam]

You either have to:

1. Abandon rules about track limits altogether which in my opinion is stupid and dangerous.
2. Have strict adherence to track limits at all times with any specific exceptions being made clear to everyone beforehand.
3. Gravel traps everywhere!

Yep - agreed! The sport has spent so much time tarmacing every surface off line (for safety), what else are the drivers going to do? There is no penalty for doing it. Put some grass there or gravel and you'll pay a price for go beyond the limit. (There was another whole thread dedicated to this, so best to resurrect that one?)

Curiously:

"This over nursing of F1, being over cautious, over-controlling, drives me mad. And this little guardrail issue is another example," he said.

"There are too many people involved in making F1 as safe as the roads, which is wrong.

"They should have fixed it quickly, do something instantly and then 10-15 minutes later the race would have gone on.

"There is no way that another car would hit in the same place that guardrail. The delays we have now, nursing the guys, not crossing the white line here, being four seconds back, it is all wrong and this should be stopped.

"I have talked to Bernie [Ecclestone] about it and he fully agrees. We have to go back to normal racing."

So maybe there might be a bit of push back here on the cards - one can only hope.

[notsofast]

If FIA can measure sector times to 0.001, surely FIA can install devices that can measure whether a car is off track.

When a car is off track, simply black flag it. This will cause the track limits to serve as a virtual wall of champions without all the safety implications.

[Cam]

I'm not so sure trying to add more timing or tracking to the cars and tracks is the answer. Why add more cost and tech headaches? Seems the F1 has given us access to all the latest tech now - and guess what - we hate it (well, most of us).

What the Kimi accident at Silverstone showed is an accident can happen anywhere - even where you least expect it. No one ever thought a car could go off there at that speed. So do we now put tyres in front of every barrier - just in case? Do we dig all those ditches up and excavate the hill to open up a run off area, then tarmac it?

If everyone is so worried about driver safety, why do we let numbers of high powered cars, with open wheels, drive close together at speeds over 300kph? Ridiculous.

Racing is dangerous, injuries will happen. If that's not cool with you, here's a sport you might like:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykFdl7qi6FU[/youtube]

[autogyro]

I discussed a workable method to improve run off areas without compromising track area some ten years ago with Charlie Whiting.
The FIA liked the idea and it was only prevented from being used by the cost aspect.
The project was to cover the run off area with a stretch material that was strong enough to be sucked up under the cars and then to use friction between the material and the underside of the cars to slow the car rapidly.
It worked fine in tests and an F3 team were going to give me a couple of cars to modify and throw at a test area so to speak for the final tests when the idea was dropped.

[Cam]

Interesting. By 'cost', what are we talking here? Millions, tens of millions, thousands? Because in F1 'cost' seems, fluid.

[autogyro]

Interesting. By 'cost', what are we talking here? Millions, tens of millions, thousands? Because in F1 'cost' seems, fluid.

No amounts were discussed at the time.

[Cam]

Interesting. By 'cost', what are we talking here? Millions, tens of millions, thousands? Because in F1 'cost' seems, fluid.

No amounts were discussed at the time.

But you must of had an idea. If the idea was rejected based on cost - yet costs were not discussed... that makes sense actually. Why have all the facts before making a decision?

[PhillipM]

Just make the kerbing out of UHMWPE.

[strad]

not sure how using UHMWPE would make a difference?
Explain please.

[Moxie]

I don't have a problem with drivers using a runoff area, it is when they run on that is the problem. Leaving the racing surface should result in a DNF, or a DSQ. For the safety of the other drivers as well as the offending driver, I am fine with a 2m buffer zone past the white line. But then a combination of tire destroying paint, foam barriers, and tire barriers. For the purposes of bringing the car to a stop safely. Ideally, the FIA would hand out penalties uniformly for leaving the racing surface so that the safety measures are even less likely to be required, but I know that is wishful thinking.

[Cam]

Yeah, I've not ever really understood how F1 can run around, at high speed, on a street circuit with rock hard barriers forming most of the track limits, yet no one bats an eye lid when drivers plough into them at 300+ kph with tyres and debris flying everywhere. Why it that?

Kimi got up and walked away from a point blank, head first, full speed, smack into a rock hard barrier. He walked away! Now, as a fan, who continues to see this happening, what part of that is un-safe? I've seen cars do cartwheels, flips, disintegrate into a thousand pieces, roll over each every thing else, and the drivers walk away, with minor injuries, if any.

What we have seen is flying debris causing more issues than single accidents at high impact. With that in mind, I again ask the question:

Yeah, I've not ever really understood how F1 can run around, at high speed, on a street circuit with rock hard barriers forming most of the track limits, yet no one bats an eye lid when drivers plough into them at 300+ kph with tyres and debris flying everywhere. Why is that?