Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
With Honda looking at these V6 turbo's, and McLaren looking at not paying for said turbo's... It look like a marriage of convenience not to mention nostalgia.
With the cars being painted white, and the red/orange....(more red) of Vodafone, and Lucozade(Orange!)I wonder if the prospect of this kind of livery would reappear?
Gutted Hamilton signed for Merc Or we could see that livery with that helmet in 2014!!
If Honda does come back, there is no surety that it will be with Mclaren. It could be with Enstone, Williams, Sauber or even Red Bull.
McLaren have failed to deliver championships time after time through there Merc partnership and the driver line up for next year is just appalling for a top team. It is like having Trulli and Fisichella for Renault 2005 - 06.
Red Bull Honda sounds ominous....like a deathstar with a diffuser.
Also I wouldn't be so harsh on Button, he can do it with the right equipment. Perez I'm unsure of but he has undoubted potential not to mention tons of cash behind him.
Edit: I dont see Honda going in with Williams, when they could just as easily have a more high profile relationship with McLaren.
Not to mention McLaren's competitive edge over Williams.
Just saying Mclaren Honda is not a given
One can argue that Mclaren's current position at the top is due to Merc Power plant and cash. And thankfully for Ron, Norbet haug was not Mario thissen
If (big if!) McLaren go for in-house capability, I'd expect that to be with Ricardo due to the relationship developed with them for the 12C?
I can't see why Cosworth would be preferred because their existing technology seems to be behind the pace. Also the 2014 engine is a completely new design so I doubt Cosworth would have much IP advantage over Ricardo for that.
dren wrote:These new turbo engines don't sound as high-tech in many ways as the older V10 screamers. The rev limit is reduced 15k, but likely 12k useable(from the Renault article in Racecar Engineering). This is where high end road cars are now. Most new road car engines use DI, and many use turbos (at lower pressure though). The block will be aluminum, nothing fancy. I see the big gains in the mechanical-electrical marriage. That area is pretty exciting.
On another site, a Honda insider is somewhat optimistic on Honda jumping back into F1 with Mclaren.
You couldn't be more wrong with that statement.
The current F1 engine is a dinosaur. No VVt, no VVL, no fancy coatings, lame jane crankshaft, lame jane camshafts lame jane everything... Mechanically the are dinosaurs - Ultra-refined dinosaurs.The Swiss made watch of the F1 world.
Note.. I am not taking about KERS, just the engines in and of themselves.
I was comparing the new (turbo engines) to current road going car technology. I mentioned the V10s. I never mentioned the V8 engines once. Did you misread my post?
I wonder if all this talk about rules stabilising isn't code for 'We're waiting for Bernie to pack it in'?
Simply saying 'we are desinging and testing an F1 spec v6 turbo and will be finalising partners as soon as we know for certain when this configuration will debut' would put the pressure on and hasten the transition.
Does anyone know Mr Ecclestones succsesion plans? From a monetary perspective I would imagine he would just want to exit, smugly, with pockets stuffed full of cash and fingers up to the banks, V.C.'s and the courts.
Will whomever inherits control be able to exert as much influence over the FIA regarding sporting regulations? A collection of financial institutions are going to be in thrall to the teams demands and would probably pressurise the FIA to Aquiese whenever there was a difference of opinion on the direction of the sport, probably favouring Ferrari above all for the same reasons Bernie does. But then it's Todt's game to play. If you are dealing with anyone less omnipotent than Bernie, you can probably stand your ground and win most of the time.
This would mean future engine suppliers having even less say in the sport they partially fund, at least at the moment they have a direct line to god, even if he is a wily, seemingly unpredictable part time agent of Montezemolo's mafia.
Are all these potential new engine suppliers eyeing up a seat on the board of F1's to-be-restructured commercial arm?
Sensibly they would club together and buy out whatever tangled web of stakeholders currently have the controlling votes, cha-ching for bernie (again) no doubt.
Edited, repeatedly, because I can't spell, have poor grammer, and there are no automatic squiggly red lines on these posting tools.
It's funny Safeaschuck mentions that, Bernie visited Maranello 2 months ago and heard the ferrari v6 and thought it was great sounds. As recently as 2 weeks ago he mentioned he would love to dump them and keep the V8. I know at 85 most old men begin to experience alot of lucidity and memory lapses, with major corporations hanging on his every word and no board of directors to kick him of his high horse i'm afraid we, and honda, will have to endure more of the will he / wont he antics we have grown used to. (SIGH)
And alot of bagging of the RA806/7/8E being heavy and low tech, that is wrong. Bernie sanctioned RPM reductions that hurt alot engine development whilst having being locked into frozen designs. Huge ports had to be filled up with large valves in the way, plus they banned MMC which honda had pride in their box section conrod.
This would disillusion any forward thinking engineer, and when then conditions are right, they will return and they will win.
Oh, and the engine weight was mandated to 95kg, no exceptions.
ScottB wrote:Can't see Red Bull switching, why would they?
It'd be a risk, they are doing fine with Renault power.
They are effectively the Renault works team now.
They have a presumably tasty sponsorship deal with Infiniti, a Renault Group company.
Slight off-topic diversion:
Infiniti is Nissan isn't it, with a Renault technology partnership?
I saw a video of Nissan's delta wing proto for le mans.... ....running a V6 turbo - test bed for 2014 Renault/Infinity F1 powertrain methinks.
ScottB wrote:Can't see Red Bull switching, why would they?
It'd be a risk, they are doing fine with Renault power.
They are effectively the Renault works team now.
They have a presumably tasty sponsorship deal with Infiniti, a Renault Group company.
Slight off-topic diversion:
Infiniti is Nissan isn't it, with a Renault technology partnership?
I saw a video of Nissan's delta wing proto for le mans.... ....running a V6 turbo - test bed for 2014 Renault/Infinity F1 powertrain methinks.
Renault/Nissan are the parent company and Infiniti is their lovechild. Renault and Nissan have been in bed together for ages now!!! If you ever get the opportunity to look under the hood of a 350z you'll find a lovely Renault V6 in there! I first heard of this when Alonso was with Renault first time round!!
"I started out with nothing and I've still got most of it".
Or we could see that livery with that helmet in 2014!! 
