2013 Testing - Barcelona 1: 19 - 22 Feb

[Anon123]

1.19 is realistic. He ran a 1.23,282 with fuel for minimum 17 laps. Supersofts and quali mode will push some cars below 1.20.

There's no way anyone will go below 1:21 in qualy come gp weekend. zero chance. Lower temps = air more dense -> higher engine power + more aero. Something you will not get in may wih 30+°C

Zero chance? Seriously? Hamilton did a low 23 on mediums in hardly ideal track conidtions, he had at least 15 laps worth of fuel on board, he probably didn't switch to the most powerful fuel mix, it is unlikely that he was pushing like he was in 2012 qualifying, the new softs should easily compensate for the limited DRS usage and there will surely be faster cars than the Merc. 1:20s easy.

[Ferraripilot]

One thing to remember here is, no one on the grid has found a new DDD or EBD, and even those aren't worth a full second.

You're right. Forget 1 second, DDD is worth 2 seconds at least. and judjing by the melbourne 2011 to 2012 pole comparison, EBD is worth 1,5s easily.

DDD nor EBD were worth that much. Button never qualified with that massive a gap with the almighty 2009 Brawn although I believe current contenders are at about that level of downforce again as the Brawn car turned at 1.20.5 pole lap and I believe that time is again possible with 2013 machinery.

[Mika1]

The reality for merc:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105674

Still think the merc is good on the long runs?

Yes, I still think that, because I check the numbers instead of one Autosport.com article.

[Ferraripilot]

Yes, I still think that, because I check the numbers instead of one Autosport.com article.

+1 the numbers tell a different story, and that's what has Sebastian and others talking. If they're not fighting to regular podiums I'd be surprised

[korzeniow]

The reality for merc:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105674

Still think the merc is good on the long runs?

Lotus are downplaying testing form as well. Lewis is diverting attention from the team/car. Frankly, Lewis has an awful lot of faith in other teams if he believes some may have found a full second over the winter. If any other top team found a half second I would be amazed as the top teams are pushing the limits in a huge way as it is.

Merc have found a couple seconds because they had far more to gain, Red Bull, Ferrari, Mclaren, Lotus are scraping for some clever gurney tab, vortex generator, air diverter, something to yield a tiny bit more. Any more 'big' gains, half second, couple tenths etc are just not there with the top guys. If anything believe Mclaren may have gone backwards for now, and Ferrari have gained nothing with this clever car simply down to its tire useage.

I agree Hamilton is the best barometer they have coming from such a strong car. That said, there's no possible way even if W04 is as good as MP4-28 he's going to say or allude so to anyone in the media, ever. We're going to have to figure that out for ourselves later.

One thing to remember here is, no one on the grid has found a new DDD or EBD, and even those aren't worth a full second. Most everyone is evolving from Brazil and there is no way Lewis' commentary that top teams have possibly found a full second is accurate, the innovation is simply not present. However, MB had much more to gain with their 2013 contender therefore them finding 2 seconds is far more believeable. MB has a big evolution of their front wing, exhaust, rear end treatment, sidepods, it has more signicant gains in place that makes sense when they claim they found a couple seconds. Now, if someone were to tell me 3 tenths or so was found over the winter by someone at the front of the grid then I would certainly believe them, because that's not unbelievable. A second? Come on now.

I'm so fed up with such posts You have no evidence whatsoever to back up your claims (bolded) but that doesn't stop you to pretend you know all the answers while there is no way the likes of Hamilton could possibly know what they are talking about. Afterall what spedding their whole lifes in motorsport can account for

Where are you talking your numbers from? Gaining 3 tenths with new designed car is all team can hope for? Seriously?

Frickin one single one update of floor for Bahrain GP gave Lotus 1.5 thenths last season! And I actually have source to back this up: http://bbs.hupu.com/3575946.html

[Ferraripilot]

I'm so fed up with such posts You have no evidence whatsoever to back up your claims (bolded) but that doesn't stop you to pretend you know all the answers while there is no way the likes of Hamilton could possibly know what they are talking about. Afterall what spedding their whole lifes in motorsport can account for

Where are you talking your numbers from? Gaining 3 tenths with new designed car is all team can hope for? Seriously?

Frickin one single one update of floor for Bahrain GP gave Lotus 1.5 thenths last season! And I actually have source to back this up: http://bbs.hupu.com/3575946.html

My conjecture comes from teams stating they are simply evolved from 2012 Brazil spec cars ie. Red Bull, Lotus and somewhat Ferrari although I believe the Ferrari is more evolved than the first two mentioned. For the front runners who are already very much pushing cutting edge boundaries, minus a DDD, EBD, or other 'magic bullet', anything over half a second sounds crazy to me. Just my opinion. For the midfield teams and others who have much more to gain it's not so impossible to believe because all those teams are doing is implementing upgrades the top teams have already done/tested.

Even Brawn didn't have over a half second advantage with BGP001, and that car had the most important magic bullet of modern racing.


Where do you conjecture Red Bull, Lotus or any other very capable team at the end of 2012 found a full second over the winter? I'd be interested in knowing, that's why I go to this website. I just don't see it, and modern F1 history has taught us that without a major innovation that kind of time is just not possible.

[CjC]

The reality for merc:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/105674

Still think the merc is good on the long runs?

Yes, I still think that, because I check the numbers instead of one Autosport.com article.

Ok well you need to go and tell Lewis Hamilton that then, the funny thing is, he's driving the car, bizzare that

[Ferraripilot]

I remember clearly the start of the 2011 season when Brawn was asked about regaining lost back end downforce due to banning of the DDD, and he said it would take probably towards the end of the season to regain that half second or so time gap difference lost from losing DDD.

[Juzh]

One thing to remember here is, no one on the grid has found a new DDD or EBD, and even those aren't worth a full second.

You're right. Forget 1 second, DDD is worth 2 seconds at least. and judjing by the melbourne 2011 to 2012 pole comparison, EBD is worth 1,5s easily.

DDD nor EBD were worth that much. Button never qualified with that massive a gap with the almighty 2009 Brawn although I believe current contenders are at about that level of downforce again as the Brawn car turned at 1.20.5 pole lap and I believe that time is again possible with 2013 machinery.

BGP1 did 1:19.954 in Q2 but you also seem to forget about red bull RB6 which did 1:19.995 with a DDD. Those are both without DRS or KERS. There's just no way in hell 2013 cars will have same amount of DF as 2009 or 2010 cars. DRS + KERS will be worth at least a second even with limited usage during quali, but still times will be nowhere near 1:20 flat. Mark my words.

[Juzh]

I remember clearly the start of the 2011 season when Brawn was asked about regaining lost back end downforce due to banning of the DDD, and he said it would take probably towards the end of the season to regain that half second or so time gap difference lost from losing DDD.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73wenn103nY
1:28 CH reckons 2 seconds quicker with a DDD on an RB6 over an early season RB5 without one.

[Ferraripilot]

1:28 CH reckons 2 seconds quicker with a DDD on an RB6 over an early season RB5 without one.

Early season RB5, yes I could definitely see a two second difference to a mid to late season RB6. Now, a Late season RB5 with DDD to early season RB6? I do not see 2 seconds but I could see a second or so. RB6 had so many differences to RB5 in a sense that the car capitalized on the DDD better than any other car, the double deck was built into the chassis for crying out loud, massive.

Point is this is not apples to apples, none of these 2013 contenders have a DDD, EBD; an 'X' factor if you will, that can be further developed to yield a second difference from late 2012. I could be very wrong so please hold me to it later though haha.

That and the fact that we have everyone under the sun (myself included) saying we won't see a Barcelona pole time breaking the 1:20 marker this year. I believe a mid 1:20 will be possible which is about a second quicker than one year prior. Using that sort of qualy timing assumption marker is a ledger, one can estimate teams possibly finding about a tenth per month meaning even if they were working double duty during the winter, a half a second is tough amongst the top teams. And of course all of this hinges on the fact that these teams are relying on their wind tunnel and CFD findings to correlate perfectly to the track, which they often don't.

[korzeniow]

James Allen's summary of barcelona tests:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/02/a ... lona-test/

Lotus looks the fastest so far.

[Neno]

James Allen's summary of barcelona tests:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/02/a ... lona-test/

Lotus looks the fastest so far.

I would love to see Lotus on pole in Melbourne, but that will be hard, Mclaren Ferrari and Red Bull are teams to beat. I am optimist and Grosjean last year first row give me condfidence it's possible.

[korzeniow]

James Allen's summary of barcelona tests:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/02/a ... lona-test/

Lotus looks the fastest so far.

I would love to see Lotus on pole in Melbourne, but that will be hard, Mclaren Ferrari and Red Bull are teams to beat. I am optimist and Grosjean last year first row give me condfidence it's possible.

I just said what charts from Allen's analysis showed, whereas you don't have anything

[Juzh]

James Allen's summary of barcelona tests:

http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2013/02/a ... lona-test/

Lotus looks the fastest so far.

I would love to see Lotus on pole in Melbourne, but that will be hard, Mclaren Ferrari and Red Bull are teams to beat. I am optimist and Grosjean last year first row give me condfidence it's possible.

I just said what charts from Allen's analysis showed, whereas you don't have anything

we have 8 tenths slower lotus from brazil compared to RB and even more to mclaren. I'm sceptical as well about lotus.