Official Senna telemetry Imola 94?

[SennaFanForever]

Hey


If I remember right I've seen an official telemetry document of the 94 Senna crash released by the Williams team a few years ago.
With other words, I'm very sure I did.


Anybody of you knows where I can find that?

[stefan_]

I don't remember seeing anything telemetry-related to the crash other than this.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NoKVrxw14Y[/youtube]

[SennaFanForever]

It was a complete record of the first 15 seconds I think, of this 7th lap.

[tim|away]

Hey


If I remember right I've seen an official telemetry document of the 94 Senna crash released by the Williams team a few years ago.
With other words, I'm very sure I did.


Anybody of you knows where I can find that?

I have never seen said document, but I would urge you to post it here should you find it at a later time. I'm sure there are many people that would be interested.

As far as I understand, there were two recorders: The renault one for the engine and Williams' own one for parameters of the car. A copy of the data of the renault data was handed to the authorities on a disc together with the recorder which was erased as a result of a testing procedure. As for the Williams recorder, there are seriously conflicting reports as to what happened to it. The person who took it from the car suggested it had minor scratches but was intact, Charlie Whiting handed the recorder to Williams right away before the officials could get their hands on it and when the recorder was returned a month latr, it was not only physically smashed for some mysterious reason (with all the input and ouput ports missing), but - worse still - no data could be retrieved from it.

If the data you are talking about refers to the Williams recorder, I am not convinced that data actually exists. Maybe someone else can jump in here and provide some background.

[MOWOG]

it was not only physically smashed for some mysterious reason

That would tend to happen to delicate electronics of that era when a sledgehammer accidentally falls off a high work bench right on top of it. Several times.......

[SennaFanForever]

It had this kind of data

Time (since beginning of lap 7)
Space (distance from the lap marker)
Steering pressure
Steering target
Steering strain
Steering pressure difference
Pedal 1 (brake) position
Gear
Clutch
Pedal 2 position
Suspension position
Revs
Car speed
Rear wheel speed
Lateral acceleration
Longitudial acceleration

[Tim.Wright]

There is this.

Not released by Williams per se but I think the company ho did the investigation into the accident.

http://www.cineca.it/it/video/ayrton-senna-car-accident

[SennaFanForever]

It was a pdf file, not a video.

[BlueAngel]

I don't remember seeing anything telemetry-related to the crash other than this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NoKVrxw14Y

Interesting video. First i've seen of this one.

Samir

[himey]

Senna's steering column snapped at the weld point. Williams claimed it could've happened on impact, which is uncontestable, given the black box was smashed beyond repair - this (allegedly) happened after it was removed from the car. The whole accident/investigation/trial/video documentary was an utter farce. There's no way he fell asleep, lost aero, lost mechanical grip, etc. And the arguments regarding his tyres not being up to temp due to the safety car were bollocks as he set the (I believe) second fastest lap of the afternoon the lap before. Any argument claiming Schumacher's pressure drove him to make a mistake is also rubbish as he was pulling away from Schumacher despite being fueled for one stop less (from memory) - he was also heavily fueled and set the second fastest lap. There's no way Schumacher would've caught him with the new improvements brought to Imola, and the following races, even with launch/traction control and their illegal fuel filter. Sadly, Senna never got to race for Williams in 95 (which Hill lost equally as much as MSC won), let alone 96 and 97. Senna in the Williams of late 94 through 97 would've been unstoppable. No one argues whether or not he was the better of Villeneuve or Hill and both achieved titles with Newey designed Williams Renaults. Whatever telemetry Williams may have released, I would happily wager, would hide more than it shows.

[sennafan24]

Senna's steering column snapped at the weld point.

I have always believed this. Prost, Ron Dennis and the majority of others think it was some sort of mechanical failure. However, Damon Hill thought it was driver error, and people who's opinion I respect I have read thought it was tyre pressure. We will never know for sure.

There are some nutjob conspiracy theories out there though.

[stefan_]

Telemetry or no telemetry, snapped steering column or not, Williams messing up the black box or not, we have to cope with the fact that a very big part of the tragic outcome of that accident was bad luck. If the suspension arm had a +/- 5cm diferent direction on the vertical axis and he would have just walked away from it.

[the user]

Telemetry or no telemetry, snapped steering column or not, Williams messing up the black box or not, we have to cope with the fact that a very big part of the tragic outcome of that accident was bad luck. If the suspension arm had a +/- 5cm diferent direction on the vertical axis and he would have just walked away from it.

Didn't he sustain several lethal injuries to the head? He wouldn't have walked away just because of the damage sudden deceleration would have caused to his brain. And if I remember correctly the basal part of the cranium also was fractured, so the suspension was only one of the death causing things.

[himey]

Senna's steering column snapped at the weld point.

I have always believed this. Prost, Ron Dennis and the majority of others think it was some sort of mechanical failure. However, Damon Hill thought it was driver error, and people who's opinion I respect I have read thought it was tyre pressure. We will never know for sure.

There are some nutjob conspiracy theories out there though.

It wasn't tyre pressure.

The collumn snapped, at the weld point, as I mentioned. This can be seen clearly from photos of the crash, and it was presented in court. The only real contention is when this happened. The length of onboard footage presented vs that recorded is also inconsistent. Damon Hill would think it was driver error; they come so easily to him.

Telemetry or no telemetry, snapped steering column or not, Williams messing up the black box or not, we have to cope with the fact that a very big part of the tragic outcome of that accident was bad luck. If the suspension arm had a +/- 5cm diferent direction on the vertical axis and he would have just walked away from it.

Didn't he sustain several lethal injuries to the head? He wouldn't have walked away just because of the damage sudden deceleration would have caused to his brain. And if I remember correctly the basal part of the cranium also was fractured, so the suspension was only one of the death causing things.

.

Difficult to say; others have walked away from pretty horrific crashes at Tamburello and Senna was hard on the brakes - he most certainly wasn't asleep, as other fools have suggested. The suspenion piece was a definite end-game, though.

[stefan_]

Telemetry or no telemetry, snapped steering column or not, Williams messing up the black box or not, we have to cope with the fact that a very big part of the tragic outcome of that accident was bad luck. If the suspension arm had a +/- 5cm diferent direction on the vertical axis and he would have just walked away from it.

Didn't he sustain several lethal injuries to the head? He wouldn't have walked away just because of the damage sudden deceleration would have caused to his brain. And if I remember correctly the basal part of the cranium also was fractured, so the suspension was only one of the death causing things.

Look at Martin Donnelly's crash - car broken in half, wheels and wishbones flying away, driver trown away still strapped in the seat and he got away alive.