Vettel vs Ricciardo 2014

[mnmracer]

So Vettel follows the Force India for 50 laps and he 'gifts' Ricciardo a win?? How about Ricciardo followed the Force India for a few laps and actually made a risky, bold but brilliant move that eventually won him the race? Vettel could not overtake again today, only until the last laps. By then Dan was busy winning the race. I think Seb will be feeling the pressure even more now, it's starting to get a bit embarrassing.

Vettel followed Hulkenberg for 16 laps. This Force India-train allowed Ricciardo to make up 6.3 seconds to Vettel and 3.5 seconds to Bottas.
Ricciardo followed Perez for 28 laps (or 75% longer than Vettel was behind Hulk) by which time said Force India had brake problems.

[turbof1]

I think it would be unfair to say Vettel was worse then Ricciardo in this race. Vettel was blocked by a force india for a long while during the first stint. It allowed Ricciardo to narrowly beat Vettel when the pitstops arrived. Without the force india holding up vettel, the story would have been different.

Vettel drove a very good race, as good as Ricciardo.

[turbof1]

I'm deleting some further bickering...

[Mandrake]

I think it would be unfair to say Vettel was worse then Ricciardo in this race. Vettel was blocked by a force india for a long while during the first stint. It allowed Ricciardo to narrowly beat Vettel when the pitstops arrived. Without the force india holding up vettel, the story would have been different.

Vettel drove a very good race, as good as Ricciardo.

Indeed he did. I just watched the race again to give a failproof answer to the pitstop thing, especially to you Cam

Vettel was behind Hulkenberg, stuck for ages. Bottas closed up. Ricciardo also needed quite some time close up. I think at that point in the race, had Vettel had clean air he would have been quicker than Ricciardo. Then came the Pitstops where Vettel dove into the pits being stuck behind Hulk and came out stuck behind Perez. Pitstop time 2,6s. Ricciardo on the other hand was a bit behind Vettel and then suddenly had 1,5s clean air in front of him, so with sitting in the quicker car he could close the gap to Hulkenberg, which in return led to a faster inlap and passing Vettel.

In the end, Ricciardo did everything right and got lucky with the pitstop. But if it wasn't for the FI train, he would have finished behind Vettel. They were at least equal this race (I still that Vettel had the slight edge this race on speed)

[JimClarkFan]

I think it would be unfair to say Vettel was worse then Ricciardo in this race. Vettel was blocked by a force india for a long while during the first stint. It allowed Ricciardo to narrowly beat Vettel when the pitstops arrived. Without the force india holding up vettel, the story would have been different.

Vettel drove a very good race, as good as Ricciardo.

Equally though, Ric was stuck behind a FI and passed whereas Vettel failed to pass either the FI or Ric during the race. I do think however Vettel was unlucky of being in the wrong place at the wrong time but by the same measure you make some of your own luck too... maybe he used up all of his luck in Brazil 2012

I do kind of feel sorry for Vettel. I think it is way to early to judge, and difficult to judge because Vettel vs Ric in a EBD car might end up the same story as Vet vs Web. Some are also looking to completely write him off, I think that is unfair.

Added to that, I think he is a top bloke, unlike some of the other drivers, and he doesn't get enough credit for that.

Edited for clarity*

[mnmracer]

I think it would be unfair to say Vettel was worse then Ricciardo in this race. Vettel was blocked by a force india for a long while during the first stint. It allowed Ricciardo to narrowly beat Vettel when the pitstops arrived. Without the force india holding up vettel, the story would have been different.

Vettel drove a very good race, as good as Ricciardo.

Equally though, Ric was stuck behind a FI and passed. Vettel was also unable to pass to FI or Ric during the race.

But they're not equal.
Not only did Ricciardo have almost twice as many laps (16 vs 28), Perez was having braking problems.

You can conclude whatever you want of it, but you can't ignore it in a comparison.

[turbof1]

I think it would be unfair to say Vettel was worse then Ricciardo in this race. Vettel was blocked by a force india for a long while during the first stint. It allowed Ricciardo to narrowly beat Vettel when the pitstops arrived. Without the force india holding up vettel, the story would have been different.

Vettel drove a very good race, as good as Ricciardo.

Equally though, Ric was stuck behind a FI and passed. Vettel was also unable to pass to FI or Ric during the race. I think Vettel was unlucky of being in the wrong place at the right time, maybe he used up all of his luck in Brazil 2012

I do kind of feel sorry for Vettel though, I think it is way to early to judge, and difficult to judge because Vettel vs Ric in a EBD car might end up the same story as Vet vs Web. Some are also looking to completely write him off. Added to that, I think he is a top bloke, unlike some of the other drivers, and he doesn't get enough credit for that.

I was also thinking of that, but Ricciardo also had to spend a huge amount of time behind Perez. I believe there are factors that allowed Ricciardo to pull the move Vettel was unable to do: Perez had older rubber, perhaps wore them further down trying to hunt down Rosberg and more critically had brake issues. Those brake issues got Perez completely out of shape at the hairpin, which allowed Ricciardo to get past. Vettel never got that chance when he was in front of Ricciardo.

Not that I'm dismissing the performance of Ricciardo. He was at the right place at the right time doing the right thing all race long. He deserved the win. Vettel will get back to his winning days, I'm sure of that. The race showed he made a lot of progress, and he looks very patient.

[JimClarkFan]

I think it would be unfair to say Vettel was worse then Ricciardo in this race. Vettel was blocked by a force india for a long while during the first stint. It allowed Ricciardo to narrowly beat Vettel when the pitstops arrived. Without the force india holding up vettel, the story would have been different.

Vettel drove a very good race, as good as Ricciardo.

Equally though, Ric was stuck behind a FI and passed. Vettel was also unable to pass to FI or Ric during the race. I think Vettel was unlucky of being in the wrong place at the right time, maybe he used up all of his luck in Brazil 2012

I do kind of feel sorry for Vettel though, I think it is way to early to judge, and difficult to judge because Vettel vs Ric in a EBD car might end up the same story as Vet vs Web. Some are also looking to completely write him off. Added to that, I think he is a top bloke, unlike some of the other drivers, and he doesn't get enough credit for that.

I was also thinking of that, but Ricciardo also had to spend a huge amount of time behind Perez. I believe there are factors that allowed Ricciardo to pull the move Vettel was unable to do: Perez had older rubber, perhaps wore them further down trying to hunt down Rosberg and more critically had brake issues. Those brake issues got Perez completely out of shape at the hairpin, which allowed Ricciardo to get past. Vettel never got that chance when he was in front of Ricciardo.

Not that I'm dismissing the performance of Ricciardo. He was at the right place at the right time doing the right thing all race long. He deserved the win. Vettel will get back to his winning days, I'm sure of that. The race showed he made a lot of progress, and he looks very patient.

Yep, understood, I'm not denying Ric didn't have the rub of the green. I'm merely pointing that Ric put in a decent performance himself ...

I feel like I'm preaching to the choir on this one with you

[mnmracer]

I'm merely pointing that Ric put in a decent performance himself ...

I haven't see anyone deny that.
I haven't seen anyone not actually praise Daniel for his performance.

I feel like I'm preaching to the choir on this one with you

The only reason you feel you're preaching is that your pointing out lacks context, and as a result implies that the situations in which one RB driver failed and the other prevailed were comparable, and the different outcome a result of performance difference. That is the only reason this discussion is still continuing.

[JimClarkFan]

I'm merely pointing that Ric put in a decent performance himself ...

I haven't see anyone deny that.
I haven't seen anyone not actually praise Daniel for his performance.

I feel like I'm preaching to the choir on this one with you

The only reason you feel you're preaching is that your pointing out lacks context, and as a result implies that the situations in which one RB driver failed and the other prevailed were comparable, and the different outcome a result of performance difference. That is the only reason this discussion is still continuing.

there is a reason why I responded to turbo and not you. Generally I don't consider you able to give a non biased view.

You are like Sebastian vettels own spin doctor.

With turbo I feel like i can have I reasoned debate, but I can't with you.

Notice that I accepted all of turbos points btw.

[mnmracer]

I'm merely pointing that Ric put in a decent performance himself ...

I haven't see anyone deny that.
I haven't seen anyone not actually praise Daniel for his performance.

I feel like I'm preaching to the choir on this one with you

The only reason you feel you're preaching is that your pointing out lacks context, and as a result implies that the situations in which one RB driver failed and the other prevailed were comparable, and the different outcome a result of performance difference. That is the only reason this discussion is still continuing.

there is a reason why I responded to turbo and not you. Generally I don't consider you able to give a non biased view.

You are like Sebastian vettels own spin doctor.

With turbo I feel like i can have I reasoned debate, but I can't with you.

Notice that I accepted all of turbos points btw.

Considering this is an information medium however, I care which information -and more importantly misinformation- is put out for people to take in. If you choose to ignore me based your own fabrications of me, fine, I really don't care, but I will respond to anything you say that is either wrong or greatly lacking necessary context.

Just so you know <3

[mnmracer]

According to BILD, Red Bull's "long-term goal" is to keep Ricciardo alongside Sebastian Vettel until at least 2018.

[turbof1]

I'm merely pointing that Ric put in a decent performance himself ...

Yes indeed! He knew exactly when to strike against Vettel, putting in a monster lap when Vettel had his outlap. And he had to pull everything out of the car when he made the pass on Perez (incredible that even with DRS the renault engine is slower then a non-drs mercedes engine.). Epic stuff.

When they got back in the room before the podium he was like: taking a breath, SMILE. taking a sip, SMILE. Hat on, SMILE. Such a positive energy around him.

[Phil]

Personally, I am mighty impressed by Ricciardo. Never did I think would he prove to be this competitive and I for one am extremely happy that he won his first race on Sunday. This will only make him an even stronger driver in the future, as it adds confidence to his already consistent driving. Well done!

I also have to say that I am mighty mighty impressed by Vettel. When they got out of the car and he gave Ricciardo a hug and almost lifted him, it did wonders to gain back some of the credit he lost back when he ignored team orders. Extremely nice gesture, despite the difficult race Vettel endured. Had he not been as unfortunate with the pitstops, it could have been he, who could have won. None to less, this is how racing goes some times and Ricciardo drove a fantastic race to end where he did.

I'm going to be very interested to see how this battle of the two continue. I still think Ricciardo has the edge and will continue to, but the gap has surely narrowed.

[BanMeToo]

I was also thinking of that, but Ricciardo also had to spend a huge amount of time behind Perez. I believe there are factors that allowed Ricciardo to pull the move Vettel was unable to do: Perez had older rubber, perhaps wore them further down trying to hunt down Rosberg and more critically had brake issues. Those brake issues got Perez completely out of shape at the hairpin, which allowed Ricciardo to get past. Vettel never got that chance when he was in front of Ricciardo.

Not that I'm dismissing the performance of Ricciardo. He was at the right place at the right time doing the right thing all race long. He deserved the win. Vettel will get back to his winning days, I'm sure of that. The race showed he made a lot of progress, and he looks very patient.

+1 Very well put