A crisis meeting in the cards?

[GitanesBlondes]

Great news.

The budget cap was a completely unfeasible idea that was not even close to being rooted in reality.

[FoxHound]

Do you know if the increase in sales for Mercedes were in emerging markets or already established markets? S

Plus there is the decreasing in entry price that Mercedes is now committing to, in order to try and increase sales in America. You can now get a base CLA250 for $29,900. I have no doubt it will help boost sales, but it sort of cheapens the brand no?

But in any event, I think they'd like to have the half a billion or so they've spent on F1 back for other more pressing needs. Most Mercedes owners I know in this area do not even know of the F1 team, or care about such things. They don't buy Mercedes models because of motorsport linkage.

Lets not go to far off topic.

Mercedes sell less than Audi or BMW at present. They also have higher costs per car than either.
However, the gap is closing quickly now and Mercedes has recorded it's best ever results in Europe, its home market as well as China and America. It is also reducing the costs per model gap by sharing engines with Renault/Nissan/infiniti in lower rung models like the CLA you mentioned.

Also, the brand exposure mercedes currently gets for itself and AMG is by far more valuable than a global ad campaign which would also cost more.

The company is making more money than it ever previously did, and 5 times more than before Dr Z took the helm, so Money is not an issue.

I don't understand why they would invest in rebuilding the team, successfully, and then invest in a Monster turbo v6 only to walk away at the end of the year?

Back in 2004 merc handed mclaren 80 million plus engines and received no sponsorship revenue in return.
Now they receive all the income and winnings, making their overall team investment(excluding engines) about the same as it was 10 years ago.

Also factor in AMG here. They are going racing chaps. Mclaren and Ferrari are fair game for them in the market place and therefore racing against them is pivotal for cache in the market place.
You say people don't buy mercs because of F1. I don't concur with that based on people I meet at trackday events.

They do buy products that are good, but have cache. AMG is that....elevated to beyond RS of Audi and on par or even superior to M from BMW.
They can even sell standalone models based purely on its image (sls).

Ive fleshed out opinion to make my point which now directs to relevance of the thread, is that the only way they pull the plug on their programme is if the FIA change the rules which eradicates their advantage.
And if that happens, then as mercedes leave the sport I will switch off too. The race today was fantastic to watch....I'm biased granted. But they actually let their guys race! It was a far cry from multi 21 nonsense and other incidents which have almost become the norm.

I'm just wondering what the anti F1 2014 lobby can come up with next in light of such a good spectacle today.

[WhiteBlue]

..I'm just wondering what the anti F1 2014 lobby can come up with next in light of such a good spectacle today.

Nothing. It was a perfect race in itself. You just have to disregard the bloody venue which the FiA is not responsible for picking. That is Bernie's doing. Did anyone notice the empty grandstands? I hope the judge in Munich will get Bernie quick and put him away as they did with Uli Hoeness (Bayern Munich manager) who cheated by at least 30 mil € on his tax bill. 40 mil € bribe is in the same league. So Bernie should do time at the German people's pleasure as Uli is now doing (3,5 years by the way).

[zeph]

I have alluded to this before, but Zetsche explained it in an interview he did right after they purchased BrawnGP. The gist of it is this:

They wanted to buy McLaren and make it a works team, but Dennis refused. When BrawnGP was on the radar, it made perfect sense to them, as the team was already running on a much lower budget and thus better prepared for the cost restrictions that were going to be implemented. He explained that F1 is a very attractive business proposition, as the worldwide visibility is second to none (except for events like the Olympics or WorldCup Soccer). He said that participating in F1 is in fact a very cost-effective way to be seen by that many viewers across the world. A global advertising campaign would cost the same or more. Finally, he said they were targeting 2013, as that was the year that the rule changes were supposed to take effect.

So that became 2014, not that big of a deal. From what I remember from that interview, I'd say they are very much on target. Why would they abandon now?

[CHT]

Merc brand value is on the uptrend at the moment and the existing compact turbo engine formula is perfect for merc marketing campaign for their mass market road cars. If they need to cut cost, perhaps they should quit DTM since they havent been doing very well of late.

[xpensive]

Mercedes is out after this season, hence the presence of Lauda and Wolff, after that MrE will take his "Formula 1" as a private enterprise with CVC. MrT has known about these plans for years, which is why he has kept such a low profile.

[Powershift]

Formula 1's plans for a cost cap in 2015 have been abandoned, FIA president Jean Todt has revealed.

The FIA announced at the end of last year that it wanted a cost cap in place for next season, with it hoped agreement on how it could be enforced reached by June 2014.

But AUTOSPORT has learned that the six team representatives on F1's Strategy Group - Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, Williams, McLaren, and Lotus - wrote to the FIA last month to say they did not believe plans for a budget cap were realistic.

They claimed that enforcing and policing a budget cap that would satisfactorily cover all the teams was impossible, and instead suggested that cost cuts should be made through technical and sporting regulations.

Attending his first grand prix of the season in Bahrain on Sunday, Todt confirmed that the teams had informed him of their belief.

And with him needing team support to push a cost cap through F1's Strategy Group he felt there was no point trying to press on with the idea.

"Most of the teams were in favour of the cost cap, but I understand that all the teams that are part of the Strategy Group are against it now," he said.

"So clearly, if the commercial rights holder, and if six teams, which means 12 of 18 are against, I cannot impose it. It's mathematics. So in this case, no more cost cap."

Todt said he had hoped the cost cap would work, as he thinks it will be harder to achieve the necessary budget restriction through regulation tweaks.

He added: "Am I disappointed? In a way I am disappointed because it may be more difficult to achieve the reduction which I feel is needed.

"But everyone says we are all in favour of reducing the cost, and through sporting and technical regulations."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/113319

BUT!! BUT!!! All the idiots of this forum tell me the FIA make the rules and that the FIA are to blame for the fuel restriction, and the fuel saving, and the quiet cars and all the tech restrictions, but if Todt, the head of FIA, wanted a cost cap why did he not just impose it since he is FIA? Could it be that the loud idiots of this forum that constantly point at the FIA are wrong? And that the FIA does not make the rules but rather the teams? hmmm imagine that, the loudest idiots being the wrongest ones, when does that ever happen? Aren't those the same loud idiots that were decrying horrible racing in 2014 F1?

What I find the oddest is that the FIA is blamed for all sorts of things of which they have no power over, but the things which they do have power over and get ridiculously wrong, like the penalty being handed out to MAL, there is hardily a peep over. So if MAL gets 3 points for his stupid move today, and it take 12 points to get a race ban than he can theoretically send a competitor onto their lid 2 more times before he has to sit out, how stupid is that one FIA?

[CHT]

Mercedes is out after this season, hence the presence of Lauda and Wolff, after that MrE will take his "Formula 1" as a private enterprise with CVC. MrT has known about these plans for years, which is why he has kept such a low profile.

Can you just shut down a factory with 400-500 engineers over night? Will Merc or Daimler board agree to throw away all their past year investment at a time when they are experiencing the fruits of their hard work?

Actually isnt Bernie talking about floating Formula 1 on stock exchange?

[xpensive]

Been there and done that, DAI will get their 5 minutes of fame and Ferrari have the V12s back. A win-win for all.

[bhall]

[...]

I'm just wondering what the anti F1 2014 lobby can come up with next in light of such a good spectacle today.

Which is the more likely scenario? (Honestly.)

After two consecutive fuel-saving parades, F1 miraculously found something extra in Bahrain? Or the reduced-downforce, wide-powerband cars were a bit flattered in Bahrain by a circuit that's ~70% straight?

Just as skeptics, such as myself, have perhaps been a bit too quick to jump to conclusions, so too can supporters.

[FoxHound]

Just as skeptics, such as myself, have perhaps been a bit too quick to jump to conclusions, so too can supporters.

Remain a sceptic, questioning leads to answers.
I'm not saying I'm fully in favour of 2014 F1 just yet.....I want to see how these car roll at places like Spa, Suzuka and Monaco. A supporter I am, but perfect this Formula is very far from.
What peeves me, is to see this.....
http://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2014/04/a ... -f1-rules/

Newey also questioned the rationale behind the changes to hybrid turbos, questioning the free credentials of the changes, the relevance of the technology and the cost,

I question Neweys' rationale in thinking burning fuel in an exhaust chamber is rational or relevant or somehow superior in execution to give him the gall to say the above?

Then Mateschitz saying he will take his toys and play elsewhere.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula-one/26721387

Or Marko pointing the finger at Renault, which ok...they're down at present....but when it powers you to 4 consecutive double titles, have a bit more class than come out and say this...
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns27659.html?

Or Blame the fuel guys at Total....
http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns27662.html

All of it is designed to put pressure on the FIA to get these guys winning again. Rule changes are being mooted but save for the 10kg extra fuel, I feel everything should remain the same.

What I feel is really going on here...Is that Bernie is trying to oust CVC's position over him by gobbling up more shares.
By driving down the price of the sport you get more value....something Bernard is insistent on in all deals.
I wont bang on...but here is nice alternate view, which I share.

http://www.motorsportmagazine.com/f1/be ... rt-of-f1/?

[bhall]

What do you expect from a pig but a grunt, yanno?

I just want to see good racing and fast cars. Previous formulae supplied the latter in spades, and every once in a while we got a good dose of the former. Thus far this season, two of three races have failed to live up to either standard, and I think the success of the third owes a great deal to the nature of the track on which it was raced, which kinda ironic considering most folks didn't have very much affection for Tilke's recipe of straights and stops until now.

I guess we'll see how it all plays out.

[Vettel Maggot]

If it wasn't for the safety car the race would not have been as exciting. It was classic NASCAR, late caution, bunch the field up, save some fuel and then fight.

[xpensive]

[...]

I'm just wondering what the anti F1 2014 lobby can come up with next in light of such a good spectacle today.

Which is the more likely scenario? (Honestly.)
...

I'm very aware that I'm an old fart, but when I was young and handsome F1 was ike this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FdWPeHFAMk

I know it was a cheap shot, but anyways...

[FoxHound]

What do you expect from a pig but a grunt, yanno?

I just want to see good racing and fast cars. Previous formulae supplied the latter in spades, and every once in a while we got a good dose of the former. Thus far this season, two of three races have failed to live up to either standard, and I think the success of the third owes a great deal to the nature of the track on which it was raced, which kinda ironic considering most folks didn't have very much affection for Tilke's recipe of straights and stops until now.

I guess we'll see how it all plays out.

I agree to an extent. But then after 5 years of a Formula, you'd expect the gap to close to the leaders, and well it just didn't happen last year. Especially the last 9 races where Vettel won the lot.
Let's look at it.

Vettel finishes 17 seconds ahead of Alonso in Belgium
Then 6 seconds ahead of Alonso in Italy
Then 32 seconds ahead of Alonso in Singapore
Then 5 seconds ahead of Raikkonen in Korea of which was marred by a safety car towards the end.
Then 8 seconds ahead of Webber in Japan
Then 29 seconds ahead of Rosberg in India
Then 30 seconds ahead of Webbo in Abu Dhabi
Then 6 seconds ahead of that powerhouse Grosjean in the US.
Finally he was 18 seconds clear of the next non Red Bull in Brazil.

Now in light of these times, and how they where attained, ie team orders, protecting tyres, saving fuel etc etc those margins could have been even bigger this year.
The fuel saving of the new Formula is no longer than it was last year according to Symmonds. And if there is more fuel use, then there is more scope for a team to get it's energy recovery systems in order.

Bottom line is, we've seen 3 races. But I see more potential from the current Formula than I did with the flaccid state of the V8 days. It's more complicated now, and it will take time for everyone to get near the other in terms of Performance. Ferrari will get there or thereabout and so will renault.
The only thing it could do with more of is noise.

Just needs time.

@X
Lou Reed