Engine Unfreeze

[McG]

token time:

https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... t=&act=url

Merc wil app/all. will have used 26, renault 25, Ferr 20 till season start.

leaves 6+7+12 / 3= 8.333 = 8 for Honda

Is that site usually reliable?

[FrukostScones]

token time:

https://translate.google.de/translate?s ... t=&act=url

Merc wil app/all. will have used 26, renault 25, Ferr 20 till season start.

leaves 6+7+12 / 3= 8.333 = 8 for Honda

Is that site usually reliable?

yep (not always of course, but the have decent insider info), but still this could be not completely correct... but I think this direction should be true.

[lebesset]

have honda left some money on the negotiating table ?
in my opinion the token arrangement offered by the FIA plus a 5th engine for the season would have levelled the playing field
or maybe honda haven't actually accepted the FIA offer yet ...has there been a statement from them saying that they will go with it ?

[mikeerfol]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda ... eze-ruling

But according to the Spanish sports daily AS, Honda is still not happy with the arguable fairness of its development scope under the FIA's new ruling.

"They are asking for a further clarification," the newspaper claims. "They want to be like everyone else, with 32 tokens for development."

[lebesset]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda ... eze-ruling

But according to the Spanish sports daily AS, Honda is still not happy with the arguable fairness of its development scope under the FIA's new ruling.

"They are asking for a further clarification," the newspaper claims. "They want to be like everyone else, with 32 tokens for development."

well , they are correct not to be happy but I suggest this is another negotiating position [ like charlie's opening offer ]
but giving them the full 32 tokens sounds a step too far

[bonjon1979]

http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/honda ... eze-ruling

But according to the Spanish sports daily AS, Honda is still not happy with the arguable fairness of its development scope under the FIA's new ruling.

"They are asking for a further clarification," the newspaper claims. "They want to be like everyone else, with 32 tokens for development."

well , they are correct not to be happy but I suggest this is another negotiating position [ like charlie's opening offer ]
but giving them the full 32 tokens sounds a step too far

Their argument doesn't make sense, but then neither do the rules or lack there of...

[KeiKo403]

What happens if Ferrari & Renault use all 32 tokens before the start of the season and then claim that they need to make further changes 'enhancements' for reliability reasons. Could they claim that because the FIA fudged the rules for homolation that they couldn't re-act appropriatly and that led to the unreliablity. Could the FIA yet say, actually everyone gets 5 PU's again this season?

[pob]

Everyone can still upgrade for reliability or cost reasons as under the v8 freeze, tokens are only for performance upgrades.

[adrianjordan]

Everyone can still upgrade for reliability or cost reasons as under the v8 freeze, tokens are only for performance upgrades.

Hence the suggestion I saw somewhere that Honda should focus on performance at the expense of reliability as they can fix the latter more freely...

[KeiKo403]

Everyone can still upgrade for reliability or cost reasons as under the v8 freeze, tokens are only for performance upgrades.

Hence the suggestion I saw somewhere that Honda should focus on performance at the expense of reliability as they can fix the latter more freely...

Yea - that's what I was kind of getting at but for Renault & Ferrari.
Lets face it, no gamble in Renault/Ferrari not doing that. Merc have 8 cars on the grid so lets say Ferrari/Renault/Honda are fighting for 9th & 10th. 1 or 2 points, they can afford to gamble on poop engines for the very start of the season and develop from there for reliability.

Could any PU manufacturer use all 32 tokens to make an unreliable PU with 900hp, but that then has to upgraded for reliablity purposes and so loses 50hp. Are they then allowed to freely develop to gain that 50hp back? Outside of reliablity dev and tokens dev.

[turbof1]

Bare in mind that updating the engines under reliability reasons comes at a price: the rechnical details of the change will be shared with the other manufacturers/teams. Essentially you are giving vital information about your power unit to the competition. And of course, this allows that same competition to lodge a complaint against the proposed changes.

[Juzh]

And of course, this allows that same competition to lodge a complaint against the proposed changes.

But no one ever does?

[turbof1]

There have been only a few known situations when an engine was altered for reliability. None so far has been withheld for that. Of course there has to be a reason to lodge a complaint. Like adding obvious performance enhancements. If there's a clear fault at work that makes the engine break down, and the proposed solution does not add performance, there's little to protest against.

[adrianjordan]

There have been only a few known situations when an engine was altered for reliability. None so far has been withheld for that. Of course there has to be a reason to lodge a complaint. Like adding obvious performance enhancements. If there's a clear fault at work that makes the engine break down, and the proposed solution does not add performance, there's little to protest against.

Indeed if it actually cost performance, as in the scenario keiko proposed, then it would presumably be even less likely to get blocked...

[Sasha]

Honda isn't happy with the compromise because Mercedes changed their plans after the ruling for Honda.Now Mercedes is going to use most of their tokens before the season starts and that will take about 8 tokens away from Honda to upgrade their engine during the season.So Honda went from around 16 to 8.