will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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lebesset
lebesset
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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lebesset wrote:doesn't seem to be any dispute as to who is the quicker race driver , but the quicker qualifier ?
still hamilton for me !
i think the reason for the 2014 result was the Button effect
pretty apparent that hamilton was desperate to win the WDC , had things not gone against him he could easily have already have been 3 times WDC ...so his strategy was Button like
in 2009 jenson was WDC because in the first half of the season he had the outstanding car and was quicker than his team mate ...he made best use of that , racked up a big lead ; when his car was more of a mid field car due to the lack of funds to develop it when the big teams adopted the DD by mid season he ignored the ...win in style ...cries and instead just picked up what points he could without sticking his neck out [ i may be wrong but i can only remember him once 'going for it ' when he judged that was the best strategy ]
hamilton spent 3 years in the same team as Button , and didn't outscore him despite being faster ; so , judging that he would beat his team mate in a head to head fight he tried to ensure front row starts ...all he needed
but in 2015 with the monkey off his back I believe we will see the real hamilton in qually and that he will comfortably outscore his team mate
looking forward to the battle !!
as I was saying.....
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

lebesset
lebesset
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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lebesset wrote:last year we saw a conservative hamilton ;in the back of his mind ....oh no . it can't happen again ...but it almost did !
this year , with his second wdc under his belt , i expect to see a different hamilton eg you expect to see rosberg outqualify him again ? in your dreams
anyone still dreaming ?
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

lebesset
lebesset
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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lebesset wrote:
lebesset wrote:last year we saw a conservative hamilton ;in the back of his mind ....oh no . it can't happen again ...but it almost did !
this year , with his second wdc under his belt , i expect to see a different hamilton eg you expect to see rosberg outqualify him again ? in your dreams
anyone still dreaming ?
not any more ,anyhow
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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PlatinumZealot wrote:It does look like it's going to be a 2 horse race again. But I would rather watch a 2 horse race than a 1 horse one.

The other teams will give us enough entertainment fighting for the podium and the odd win. Just enough for my satisfaction. 8)
Dear me! I was wrong on all accounts.

There is no two horse race.

I love watching this one horse race though boring.

There is not enough entertainment for the podium or the odd win.
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lebesset
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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monza seems to have evened out the luck this season
at monaco hamilton lost 17 points compared to rosberg when the team called him in
at monza rosberg 16.5 points to hamilton when his engine failed [ give him the benefit of the doubt , he might have pressurised vettel into a mistake and got past ]

so even steven , 53 point lead for hamilton looks about right to me
to the optimist a glass is half full ; to the pessimist a glass is half empty ; to the F1 engineer the glass is twice as big as it needs to be

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Phil
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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I agree. While I am all for an exciting season, I don't see why one driver should have more luck than the other just for the sake of making him have to work harder. In that sense, I think the 53 points gap is very representative and I'm fine with that.

As I said in the Monza topic; I think this could prove to be a good thing for Rosberg. No more driving conservative, no more relying on faith etc. Now it's all in or nothing. I predict a very aggressive driving Rosberg in Singapore or a resigned one. The gloves have to come off now.

53 points gap with 7 races remaining; This also means that Rosberg can not win the WDC on his own anymore (7 wins would only net him 49 points if Hamilton manages to get 2nd every time).

All still to play for IMO. There's not much separating them and if Rosberg can beat Hamilton in a few races on track, he might pressure Hamilton into more mistakes like he did last year when he was under pressure. It's all up to Rosberg though and it has to start now.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. β€” bhall II
#Team44 supporter

Edax
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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Phil wrote: As I said in the Monza topic; I think this could prove to be a good thing for Rosberg. No more driving conservative, no more relying on faith etc. Now it's all in or nothing. I predict a very aggressive driving Rosberg in Singapore or a resigned one. The gloves have to come off now.
Who says he is driving conservatively? I think for the past races (perhaps to with the exception of Hungary) Rosberg has been driving exceptionally well. He has not made mistakes, he has become quite efficient in passing opponents. Passing two Williams cars in an outlap, does show dedication. The pass on Perez was excellent, no frills, no drama.

IMO the standings (although entirely justified) do not show the progression that Rosberg has made in the past two years.

The problem as I see it is that since the end of last year Hamilton has raised the bar by a notch or two.

Jolle
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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Edax wrote:
Phil wrote: As I said in the Monza topic; I think this could prove to be a good thing for Rosberg. No more driving conservative, no more relying on faith etc. Now it's all in or nothing. I predict a very aggressive driving Rosberg in Singapore or a resigned one. The gloves have to come off now.
Who says he is driving conservatively? I think for the past races (perhaps to with the exception of Hungary) Rosberg has been driving exceptionally well. He has not made mistakes, he has become quite efficient in passing opponents. Passing two Williams cars in an outlap, does show dedication. The pass on Perez was excellent, no frills, no drama.

IMO the standings (although entirely justified) do not show the progression that Rosberg has made in the past two years.

The problem as I see it is that since the end of last year Hamilton has raised the bar by a notch or two.
I think Rosberg would be a lot happier if he would except the job he's hired to do. He's not there to be the star of the team, they hired Hamilton for that (formula one is all about marketing for Mercedes, don't forget). His job is to be within 0,3 seconds behind Lewis and be in front third. He is there for the consistency, the intelligent driver for when they do have a problem with the car, he can help sort it out (with driver feedback, although this job is less and less needed in F1 these days). Rosberg is Mark Webber, Rubens Barrichello, Gerard Berger, David Coulthard. Good drivers but just not that ultimate pace or ruthlessness (and marketability) of Hamilton, Senna, Vettel, Schumacher, Alonso, Raikkonen, Hakkinen.

in 2013 Hamilton was still adjusting to the team and brakes and in 2014, in the end it was pretty clear that Hamilton was, with ease, the faster driver.

It's a one horse race as long as the horse doesn't break his hooves too many times.

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MercedesAMGSpy
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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Rosberg has improved, but we won't notice it that much because Lewis made a bigger step, especially in qualifying. He sorted out his brake problems and is back to his best qualifying form.

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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This year, what has been appalling is the fact that, Nico can see all the data of Lewis, but doesn't understand where Lewis is getting that speed from. 11-1 statistic in qualifying is mayhem and murder, with an average gap of over 3 tenths. If not for the Monaco farce this year, Lewis would be leading by 70 points !!! The new start rules are definitely not going to help Nico who doesn't have the same natural feel for the car to find his own clutch bite point and with all the coaching getting banned, mind you next year it would be even more, Nico is losing out significantly. This is increasingly started to resemble Vettel-Webber situation from 2010 to 2013. For the first time in his career, Lewis has shown such consistency last year in races and he has bettered it this year in qualifying too. Unlike last year, either reliability or the double points farce isn't going to keep the title battle alive. Last year, Lewis started his comeback from Monza, but this year, it's almost over at Monza.

Mercedes management would be happy to be not having to manage two warring drivers and have what has naturally developed, a No.1-No.2 situation. They can continue to claim that they have given open atmosphere to fight each other, but are assured of the way it is going to go. Looking at the performance gap between Merc and others, nothing suggests anything is going to change for next year. Which means, Mercedes management can go back each race and have peaceful sleep. The loser would be the sport itself.

ScottB
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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I think it's more down to Hamilton's psychology, he spent most of last year playing catch up, and in those situations he seems to over cook things, as we saw in Hungary this season even.

However, allow him to get out in front, and he won't look back. I think that's the major difference between this year and last, though the pressure being somewhat off after his second title is likely a factor too.


As for Rosberg, he simply isn't as good. I suspect his challenge last year will be a Massa style high watermark for his career. That's not to say he's not a good driver by any means, he's just up against one of the best.

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Multi21
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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I actually thought that last year in the races when he had to play catch up he did rather good: hungary was great except for locking brakes at turn 2. Hockenheim a bit less so but apart from the misunderstanding with button he would have gone up to 2nd past Bottas. Hungary this year is the race that left me dumbfounded, he wanted to make up too many places to fast and forgot how fast his car was.

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Phil
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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Multi21 wrote:Hungary this year is the race that left me dumbfounded, he wanted to make up too many places to fast and forgot how fast his car was.
Because Hungary is a difficult track to overtake, even when you are in a quicker car. The years of Redbull dominance has shown us this quite clearly, especially if the car is set-up for a front-row start and is higher on downforce than outright straight line speed. The more difficult a track is to overtake, the more risk a driver has to take to pass other cars. Or he just lets it be, lives with it and brings the car home in the position he is in. When you take risks however, it's a fine line between utter (perceived) masterful brilliance and catastrophic misjudgment any armchair expert will slaughter you for.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. β€” bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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Phil
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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Edax wrote:Who says he is driving conservatively? I think for the past races (perhaps to with the exception of Hungary) Rosberg has been driving exceptionally well. He has not made mistakes, he has become quite efficient in passing opponents. Passing two Williams cars in an outlap, does show dedication. The pass on Perez was excellent, no frills, no drama.
I suppose he is driving strong, certainly very consistent. But in my opinion, he just doesn't have that same ruthlessness or fighting spirit that Lewis has. Lets compare Hungary; Lewis found himself in the midfield and he fought to get back to the front, even if Hungary is notoriously difficult to pass. That allowed him, also thanks to the safety car, to get right back behind his team-mate in the 2nd half of the race (before he collided with Ric).

Rosberg on the other hand, when he finds himself behind other cars, or slightly out of position, to me, just seems as if he is a bit asleep mentally. You won't see him drive aggressively, just calculated, perhaps sitting back, waiting for opportunities to come his way. At least that's how it seems to me. Lewis definitely seems to be more 'pro active' when things don't go according to plan. It might not always work out - Brazil 2014 - when taking too much risk results in an off-track moment that might have made the difference between gaining that position over his team-mate or not, but at least he seems to try. In other instances, it worked out brilliantly - Suzuka 2014, Monza 2014, he successfully put his team-mate under so much pressure that he folded, made a mistake and that made him gain the position that ultimately led to him becoming WDC. Had he not pulled off those passes at Monza and Suzuka, Rosberg might have been WDC (not going to argue just or not, but the points gap going into Abu Dhabi was *only* 17 points with double points awarded).

My opinion is that Rosberg just is too passive, a bit too opportunistic. If he finds himself out of position, it's either a strategy that gets him back behind Lewis or an opportunity arose that allowed him to take advantage (i.e. Silverstone; the rain that came). Compare that to Lewis who too was behind the Williams, but made more effort to pass those than Rosberg behind him who just settled back. Sure, Rosberg could be applauded for being brilliant, playing the long game, trying to use the tires in a calculated way in order to gain an advantage etc. Lewis is definitely more short-sighted or so it seems when out of position. But Rosberg is behind by 53 points and he needs to realize that continuing like this will not make things better.

He needs to start driving more aggressive and apply pressure on his team-mate in the race. Force him into errors. He likely won't get a DRS pass because the cars are too evenly matched on most tracks, but he needs to apply pressure. Then we might see a repeat of last year where Lewis did make mistakes.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. β€” bhall II
#Team44 supporter

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: will 2015 be a 2 horse race ?

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Jolle wrote:
Edax wrote:
Phil wrote: As I said in the Monza topic; I think this could prove to be a good thing for Rosberg. No more driving conservative, no more relying on faith etc. Now it's all in or nothing. I predict a very aggressive driving Rosberg in Singapore or a resigned one. The gloves have to come off now.
Who says he is driving conservatively? I think for the past races (perhaps to with the exception of Hungary) Rosberg has been driving exceptionally well. He has not made mistakes, he has become quite efficient in passing opponents. Passing two Williams cars in an outlap, does show dedication. The pass on Perez was excellent, no frills, no drama.

IMO the standings (although entirely justified) do not show the progression that Rosberg has made in the past two years.

The problem as I see it is that since the end of last year Hamilton has raised the bar by a notch or two.
I think Rosberg would be a lot happier if he would except the job he's hired to do. He's not there to be the star of the team, they hired Hamilton for that (formula one is all about marketing for Mercedes, don't forget). His job is to be within 0,3 seconds behind Lewis and be in front third. He is there for the consistency, the intelligent driver for when they do have a problem with the car, he can help sort it out (with driver feedback, although this job is less and less needed in F1 these days). Rosberg is Mark Webber, Rubens Barrichello, Gerard Berger, David Coulthard. Good drivers but just not that ultimate pace or ruthlessness (and marketability) of Hamilton, Senna, Vettel, Schumacher, Alonso, Raikkonen, Hakkinen.

in 2013 Hamilton was still adjusting to the team and brakes and in 2014, in the end it was pretty clear that Hamilton was, with ease, the faster driver.

It's a one horse race as long as the horse doesn't break his hooves too many times.

Keep telling yourself that Jolle but the rest of us know that Rosberg is a very fast driver and a genuine threat to Lewis on any given day. Rosberg is good enough to beat Michael three years in a row. Be it the old version of Micael not just any driver can do that. And another thing too, why would a number two driver slash the tyres of the No1? And why would the Number two be challenging for wins? And dog fighting? Why denigrate Nico to make Lewis look worse? All of the greats over the years had made their good teammates look average evey now and then. And this is what we are seeing now.
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