Did Grosjean "Brake Test" Verstappen?

[Phil]

I think part of the reason is because many of us (younger folks - ehm, although I'm 32!) grew up with Schumacher and were able to watch him live, while we were unfortunate not to have been able to watch Senna. With Schumacher, I also suspect the sport grew and was more widely broadcast, so his moves were a big deal. Senna, we just remember as being perhaps the greatest ever and of course his tragic death. Perhaps it is that, that makes us look at him under a different light.

I have no opinion either way to be honest. Perhaps the relevant question is; who did which moves against which drivers? A cheat is a cheat, a bold move a bold move, but if you are playing dirty against others who are doing the same, it perhaps is a bit different than if a driver is doing against other that are not. (Not saying it was this way - I really have no way to know and I admittedly never watched the Senna seasons to see his moves in proper context).

An example: On race 1, driver A might be very ruthless against driver B. Then on race 2, the whole thing escelates when driver B returns the favour and perhaps goes over the limit. That is putting it into context somewhat. From what I gather, it seems Schumacher didn't need to do what he did, which is why it's a big deal. Senna - I have no idea. He was as ruthless as a driver can be, but perhaps he was at least consistent in how he did it?

As for Grosjean/Verstappen; I think telemetry shows that Grosjean clearly didn't brake-test, but he was struggling with grip in that stage of the race. As an observer, I wasn't surprised to see the crash unfold eventually.

[PlatinumZealot]

Krofty got it spot on.

[Vasconia]

I think part of the reason is because many of us (younger folks - ehm, although I'm 32!) grew up with Schumacher and were able to watch him live, while we were unfortunate not to have been able to watch Senna. With Schumacher, I also suspect the sport grew and was more widely broadcast, so his moves were a big deal. Senna, we just remember as being perhaps the greatest ever and of course his tragic death. Perhaps it is that, that makes us look at him under a different light.

I have no opinion either way to be honest. Perhaps the relevant question is; who did which moves against which drivers? A cheat is a cheat, a bold move a bold move, but if you are playing dirty against others who are doing the same, it perhaps is a bit different than if a driver is doing against other that are not. (Not saying it was this way - I really have no way to know and I admittedly never watched the Senna seasons to see his moves in proper context).

An example: On race 1, driver A might be very ruthless against driver B. Then on race 2, the whole thing escelates when driver B returns the favour and perhaps goes over the limit. That is putting it into context somewhat. From what I gather, it seems Schumacher didn't need to do what he did, which is why it's a big deal. Senna - I have no idea. He was as ruthless as a driver can be, but perhaps he was at least consistent in how he did it?

As for Grosjean/Verstappen; I think telemetry shows that Grosjean clearly didn't brake-test, but he was struggling with grip in that stage of the race. As an observer, I wasn't surprised to see the crash unfold eventually.

Plus there was some kind of tolerance with Senna(mainly) and other drives. After him and his death I think that FIA didnt want show any tolerance with some aggresive moves ,so Schumacher, who had learnt a lot about this from Senna, received very hard penalties.

Senna was very,very dirty in his defensive moves. More than once other drivers, like Prost, accussed him of going too far. But it seems that his tragic death buried his dark side and only showed from that moment, his good aspects(which were a lot of course).

And well, Shumacher, like Senna, did those polemic moves when he was under a great pressure, so both did them because they "need" to do it. I dont see any difference in this aspect. Senna used to be faster on Saturdays rather than on Sundays, so in many races he needed to defend himself. Schumacher did it when he was battling for the WC or fighting with another drivers like Montoya or Coulthard. In the case of the Colombian, I would like to mention that he was truy hard too, but it seems that some fans liked it because he was attacking that boring German boy who was winning all the time.

Anyway, I dont support those dirty movements, though nowadays I think that F1 has gone too far with this, I miss some hard battles of the past.

[ChrisF1]

Re: Schumacher and other drivers, who wasn't jumping on their sofa when Wurz was giving him some at Monaco in 98, or when Montoya barged him in Brazil, or at the hairpin at the Nurburgring?

[Vasconia]

Re: Schumacher and other drivers, who wasn't jumping on their sofa when Wurz was giving him some at Monaco in 98, or when Montoya barged him in Brazil, or at the hairpin at the Nurburgring?

I wasnt haha, but yes, it becomes quite boring if a driver win always (even if it is your favourite one).

[ChrisF1]

Oh Schumacher was my favourite during that era, but it was just amazing to see him properly challenged wheel to wheel (I always though Hakkinen was all about the car, didn't appreciate him at the time)

[Boff]

Only sh!t drivers brake test. They should ban it, like weaving.

[Starscreamer]

Yes he did!!
But I see it as a racing incident
Ridiculous from FIA that Verstappen get a penalty and other drivers not

wtf why the minus
Its a opinion... they ask did Grosjean did a brake test..... I see yes
This is a typical race incident and not worth a penalty and now -3

[Vasconia]

Oh Schumacher was my favourite during that era, but it was just amazing to see him properly challenged wheel to wheel (I always though Hakkinen was all about the car, didn't appreciate him at the time)

Yes, taking into account how hard was Michael in the "wheel to wheel" battles, it was just spectacular to see those fights.

[PlatinumZealot]

Verstapen is very wet behind the ears when it comes to cars. He wouldn't know a brake test if it bit his azz.
He will learn some more "defensive driving" as he matures.

[Boff]

He did it again! Moves across under braking & acts surprised when someone hits him! Least he got a penalty, not much of one though.

[Boff]

& Stevens said on radio he often does that??? (Cut across dangerously I assume)

[J.A.W.]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned already.. pages ago..

But by "brake test" - is it really meant to be "brake check" ?

As in - G knows his brakes are fine, & that they don't need functional 'testing'..
..but he is just pulling a dumb-ask 'road rage' type stunt that involves sudden/needless brake application..
.. so as to deliberately.. 'check' V, the driver - who is stat behind him?

If so, G - should be penalized - for unsporting/unsafe driving conduct, IMO..

[db__]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned already.. pages ago..

But by "brake test" - is it really meant to be "brake check" ?

As in - G knows his brakes are fine, & that they don't need functional 'testing'..
..but he is just pulling a dumb-ask 'road rage' type stunt that involves sudden/needless brake application..
.. so as to deliberately.. 'check' V, the driver - who is stat behind him?

If so, G - should be penalized - for unsporting/unsafe driving conduct, IMO..

Yes - it is usually referred to as 'brake testing' though - as in testing the brakes of the guy behind....

[George-Jung]

Forgive me if this has been mentioned already.. pages ago..

But by "brake test" - is it really meant to be "brake check" ?

As in - G knows his brakes are fine, & that they don't need functional 'testing'..
..but he is just pulling a dumb-ask 'road rage' type stunt that involves sudden/needless brake application..
.. so as to deliberately.. 'check' V, the driver - who is stat behind him?

If so, G - should be penalized - for unsporting/unsafe driving conduct, IMO..

I don't want to be an *sshole.. but,

A brake test is a term used in motorsport. A driver is said to brake test another driver when the two are driving very close together and the front driver deliberately brakes very hard, causing the second driver to have to do likewise and often make an evasive maneuver to avoid an accident.

Because of the aggressive and dangerous nature of this move, a driver who makes such a move is often penalized. Penalties given for such actions can vary from time penalties, to exclusion from a race or event.

Brake test is commonly called a brake check in America. This may be a play on words based on a double meaning: checking the functionality of the brakes and reference to the hockey check.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brake_test