Is Kimi Raikkonen overrated?

[Silent Storm]

I don't think Kimi is the best driver out there, but one of the best drivers. I don't believe he would be an ideal test driver or development driver. He's a driver that extracts everything out of the potential performance of a car. That's the raw pace he has. Give him a championship winning car and he'll win you a championship. He's a thrill seeker, a guy that looks for excitement in his life. I don't believe he's a driver that goes to a team and takes that team to a championship. He's here when he has the chance to win a championship. Considering the teams he has driven for (except for his debut with Sauber), he has driven for Mclaren, Ferrari and Lotus. With all those teams he was in the race for a championship.

But Vettel is showing that this Ferrari is championship fighting car if it weren't for bad luck. The way Massa has been performing and how Kimi is performing now, it makes you think that Ferrari dumped him for something not as good. Too many mistakes.. His steering control is one of the best but his throttle control is poor. Too many times he spins the car. Last year he spun in winter testing, he spun in Silverstone, he spun in Canada. This year he spun in testing he spun in Canada again.. I am waiting on him to spin in Silverstone now. It is almost as if he refuses to adapt his driving style. The gaps between his perfomance in "Alonso's car" last year and his tailor made car this year are almost the same.

The same Kimi who did not break traction once for the whole race.

Slade has said it many times that Raikkonen is good on throttle which was part of the reason why he was able to look after his tyres.

Maybe Massa is right Fernando really outpsyched Kimi. We know the speed is there but he is making mistakes like a rookie under pressure. Heck even they are not making mistakes nowadays. He is under pressure that's for sure and he's not handling it well. It's like he has lost his form and it happens in every sport and to every athlete. Look at his onboards and his lines they are different and not consistent lap after lap. He is overdriving the car.

I read it somewhere that someone suggested Ron Dennis to not pressurise Kimi and give him his space and he would perform. That is not happening in Ferrari right now and it won't happen.

So did Fernando really break the Iceman?? I think he did.

Is Kimi Raikkonen overrated? If you look at this year and last years performance one might say yes but even in that you can see his race craft and those lines he takes when on fresh tyres or when the tyres are worned out, when following another car and some of the moves he pulled out. You know that he is no ordinary driver waiting for the DRS straight to pass. No he does not have the application of Lewis or Fernando but no way is he overrated.

[spadeflush]

No, I do not think he is overrated. Past his prime? Of course, yes. Arguably any driver who is 34 or 35 years old is past his "prime".

Is he still good? Yes he is, take the spins away and the poor luck in the first couple of races and his performance was there. Not in qualifying, but he is up against Vettel who is a fantastic qualifier. Of course, we dont know the reason behind the spins, I am making this argument while giving him the benefit of doubt.

Is he as good as he used to be in his "prime"? No. I believe there was a time when Kimi was one of the best drivers on the Formula One grid but now he is one of the good ones.

I like Kimi, I always have. But I am not sure if he should be retained next year, especially when Ferrari has a lot of options to choose from. I believe Hulkenberg deserves that seat more.

[mertol]

Is it coincidence that Kimi's strongest years were when traction control was allowed and now that it isn't he can't put the power down even at 5th gear...

It's like he has lost his form and it happens in every sport and to every athlete.

What form dude? From when? This now is his usual form.

[Kiril Varbanov]

On the OP: Is Kimi Raikkonen overrated? Compared to what, judging how?
He had the bad luck to have two immensely strong drivers, also world champions, alongside him. They overshadowed him and that was inevitable.
Kimi had pretty good moments with Lotus, but let's not confuse his cool personality and intolerance to bullshit with his driving. He has moot situations more than other, but we can't spare all his clean moves when fighting at the middle pack, which are usually not shown on the TV.
Kimi is a good driver, but not top driver like VET, HAM or ALO. His mumbling responses sometimes make people think he doesn't care about racing. That's quite simply not true.

[Miguel]

Is it coincidence that Kimi's strongest years were when traction control was allowed and now that it isn't he can't put the power down even at 5th gear...

That's something I've wondered before. It'd be ironic if that were the case, considering the flak Massa got for his spins in the first couple of races of 2008, when TC was last banned. My impression right now is that Kimi isn't really much better than Massa: above average, but not great. A good car will flatter them both.

[Emmcee]

Is it coincidence that Kimi's strongest years were when traction control was allowed and now that it isn't he can't put the power down even at 5th gear...

That's something I've wondered before. It'd be ironic if that were the case, considering the flak Massa got for his spins in the first couple of races of 2008, when TC was last banned. My impression right now is that Kimi isn't really much better than Massa: above average, but not great. A good car will flatter them both.

Massa is above kimi IMO, atleast he was getting a few podiums in his last Ferrari season, not to mention ran kimi to the ragged edge when teammates. I think Massa isn't as good as he used to be but at this stage of his and kimis career, I think Massa has the slight edge IMO.

[efuloni]

That's something I've wondered before. It'd be ironic if that were the case, considering the flak Massa got for his spins in the first couple of races of 2008, when TC was last banned. My impression right now is that Kimi isn't really much better than Massa: above average, but not great. A good car will flatter them both.

Two years ago, a brazilian blogger posted the numbers of Massa in comparison with his team-mates in Ferrari. The title of the text was "Alonso is the problem." The point was to prove that Massa was not that bad, but Alonso is really good, since Felipe was not so outperformed by Shumi or Kimi.

Here are the numbers. Is funny that, overall, Felipe was better than RAI. But a championship is a championship, of course.

If you need some translation, the stats are: GP's, quali battles, race battles, poles, victories, fastest lapes, podiums and points

So I agree, in my opinion Kimi and Massa are similar. Above average, but not top class like VET, ALO and HAM.

[ChrisF1]

Only one of those team mates raced with a Post-Accident Massa...

[Andres125sx]

Only one of those team mates raced with a Post-Accident Massa...

I wonder the reason people keep bringing in this absurd argument

If true, Bottas must be pathetic, struggling with a post-accident Massa...

And Kimi even worse, since Alonso scored triple point than him, when Massa never scored so few points in comparison, not even in the next season to the accident

[evered7]

Only one of those team mates raced with a Post-Accident Massa...

I wonder the reason people keep bringing in this absurd argument

If true, Bottas must be pathetic, struggling with a post-accident Massa...

And Kimi even worse, since Alonso scored triple point than him, when Massa never scored so few points in comparison, not even in the next season to the accident

Exactly the reason why Bottas isn't the answer. He hasn't beaten convincingly an old man in Massa to be deserving of a seat in a top team.

I am actually thinking Vergne wouldn't be a bad try. Vettel is going to be #1 for the time he is at Ferrari, Vergne would be the consistent #2 to bring in the points and be the rear gunner for the team picking up the points to help with the WCC.

[Andres125sx]

That's something I've wondered before. It'd be ironic if that were the case, considering the flak Massa got for his spins in the first couple of races of 2008, when TC was last banned. My impression right now is that Kimi isn't really much better than Massa: above average, but not great. A good car will flatter them both.

Two years ago, a brazilian blogger posted the numbers of Massa in comparison with his team-mates in Ferrari. The title of the text was "Alonso is the problem." The point was to prove that Massa was not that bad, but Alonso is really good, since Felipe was not so outperformed by Shumi or Kimi.

Here are the numbers. Is funny that, overall, Felipe was better than RAI. But a championship is a championship, of course.

If you need some translation, the stats are: GP's, quali battles, race battles, poles, victories, fastest lapes, podiums and points

So I agree, in my opinion Kimi and Massa are similar. Above average, but not top class like VET, ALO and HAM.

http://flaviogomes.warmup.com.br/wp-con ... -massa.jpg

I´ve supported Alonso since he was in Minardi, and it´s the same always....

Is (put Alonso´s teammate you want) overrated? Does he deserve that seat? I´ve seen this with all of them, Yooung (this one really deserved it ), Marquez, Trulli, Fisichella, Massa, Raikonnen, Villeneuve, Grosjean....

Only Hamilton managed to keep up, and even with all the support from the team (allowing complains to FIA that harmed the team, making some suspicious mistakes as failing with Alonso´s tyre pressure on some qualy...) and FIA (not punishing some asthonising incidents always under the excuse of "next time we will punish"...), he didn´t manage to score one single point more than him

I know many people will disagree with this, but to me it´s crystal clear


Alonso is the driver who has had stronger team mates (three WC, four with Button, even when Villeneuve was past his prime), and all of them have been questioned because of the aparently poor perfomance compared to him

Disclaimer: I support Hamilton since 2006 season, he was just superb that GP2 season, and I was very dissapointed by McLaren behaviour becuase he really didn´t need any help. But they were obsessed with Hamilton winning on his rookie season and ruined best team they´ve had for decades

[Spoutnik]

[...]but not top driver like VET, HAM or ALO. [...]

Vettel is overated and he don't deserve to be on Alonso and Hamilton class IMO, let's be honest. With the awful F2012 he would never fight for the title, and he don't have the natural speed ability of Hamilton. He's certainely inferior to those to driver for overtake.

But he's a good/simply guys, with passion for race and very smart.

[flynfrog]

One and only warning if you cant back your driver argument with data don't post it.

Driver threads are generally frowned upon this one circling the drain

[evered7]

One and only warning if you cant back your driver argument with data don't post it.

Driver threads are generally frowned upon this one circling the drain

This thread should have been closed long back. The discussion has been mostly about opinion than about facts with all recent blips in form being used to support the claim.

Will see how long this continues Gathered knowledge from this thread that Lotus of 2012/13 was a space ship commandeered by two sub par pilots.

[Emmcee]

I started this thread based on opinion not on factual evidence on who is better, i don't see the issue. If people want to make this into a derogatory thread based on certain drivers, iam sorry but that truly wasnt my intention, it was based purely on opinion.