Silly Season 2016/2017

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Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Scuderia1967 wrote:The-belgian-guy-who-is-actually-better-than-the-dutch-spoiled-brat, a.k.a. Stoffel Vandoorne
in Stoffel's dreams.
If VanDoorne was 'actually better',
VanDoorne ACTUALLY would be having a race seat in a GP Winning capable car.
It ACTUALLY happens to be, that Verstappen HAS a race seat in a GP winning capable car.
it ACTUALLY happens to be, that Stoffel at best has gotten a ride in a mediocre car with a trashcan of an engine
only because the star driver tumbled into some broken ribs, despite being YEARS connected to F1 events and Mclaren.
and it also actually happens to be that other teams have been vocal about their interest in Verstappen, the 'HOT' object in F1 - as the teams said just before he was promoted to RB.
it also actually happens to be that ZERO teams have been vocal about being interested in VanDoorne.

either way, haters gonna hate.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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superdowg316
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Scuderia1967 wrote:The-belgian-guy-who-is-actually-better-than-the-dutch-spoiled-brat
I doubt 11 years of constant karting and more than $500,000 spent to get to F3 is being spoiled, more doing it hard.
Friendship with Honda ended, Renault is my new (and more reliable) friend.

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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GrayGreat wrote:
Manoah2u wrote:
Scuderia1967 wrote:The-belgian-guy-who-is-actually-better-than-the-dutch-spoiled-brat, a.k.a. Stoffel Vandoorne
either way, haters gonna hate.
You are doing this perfectly right now, no need for others.
Stating the obvious is hating? Let me repost his statements.
If VanDoorne is that good, VanDoorne ACTUALLY would be having a race seat in a GP Winning capable car. It's a fact. What is hating here?
It ACTUALLY happens to be, that Verstappen HAS a race seat in a GP winning capable car. It's a fact. What is hating here?
it ACTUALLY happens to be, that Stoffel at best has gotten a ride in a mediocre car with a trashcan of an engine
only because the star driver tumbled into some broken ribs, despite being YEARS connected to F1 events and Mclaren.It's a fact. What is hating here?
and it also actually happens to be that other teams have been vocal about their interest in Verstappen, the 'HOT' object in F1 - as the teams said just before he was promoted to RB.It's a fact. Toto has made open statement about this. What is hating here?
it also actually happens to be that ZERO teams have been vocal about being interested in VanDoorne.It's a fact. What is hating here?

GrayGreat
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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GPR-A wrote:
GrayGreat wrote:
Manoah2u wrote:
either way, haters gonna hate.
You are doing this perfectly right now, no need for others.
Stating the obvious is hating? Let me repost his statements.
If VanDoorne is that good, VanDoorne ACTUALLY would be having a race seat in a GP Winning capable car. It's a fact. What is hating here?
It ACTUALLY happens to be, that Verstappen HAS a race seat in a GP winning capable car. It's a fact. What is hating here?
it ACTUALLY happens to be, that Stoffel at best has gotten a ride in a mediocre car with a trashcan of an engine
only because the star driver tumbled into some broken ribs, despite being YEARS connected to F1 events and Mclaren.It's a fact. What is hating here?
and it also actually happens to be that other teams have been vocal about their interest in Verstappen, the 'HOT' object in F1 - as the teams said just before he was promoted to RB.It's a fact. Toto has made open statement about this. What is hating here?
it also actually happens to be that ZERO teams have been vocal about being interested in VanDoorne.It's a fact. What is hating here?
You can't state one is better than the other unless you see them driving the same car, or similar cars. It is just your opinion, not fact. If someone is not in Formula 1, it does not mean he cannot be better than the current formula 1 drivers. Stop stating your opinions as facts.
And calling someone bad, when you don't know sh*t and just because of your opinion, its called hating.

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Scuderia1967
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Jeez, you Jumbo Verstappen loverboys are really a tight unit, aren't you? :lol:

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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GrayGreat wrote:[You can't state one is better than the other unless you see them driving the same car, or similar cars. It is just your opinion, not fact. If someone is not in Formula 1, it does not mean he cannot be better than the current formula 1 drivers. Stop stating your opinions as facts.
And calling someone bad, when you don't know sh*t and just because of your opinion, its called hating.
You can't simply get a tom, dick or a harry from the road side and then say, OK let them drive and now we compare. You first have to earn a seat and to get a seat in a top team, you have to earn it. Simple. Vandoorne couldn't and Max did. To that extent, Max is certainly a better driver.
Scuderia1967 wrote:Jeez, you Jumbo Verstappen loverboys are really a tight unit, aren't you? :lol:
For intellectually challenged people, these discussions are too much to handle objectively and they seek a way out. You certainly found one with that statement. Cheers for you, yeah. =D>

Fulcrum
Fulcrum
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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GPR-A wrote:
GrayGreat wrote:[You can't state one is better than the other unless you see them driving the same car, or similar cars. It is just your opinion, not fact. If someone is not in Formula 1, it does not mean he cannot be better than the current formula 1 drivers. Stop stating your opinions as facts.
And calling someone bad, when you don't know sh*t and just because of your opinion, its called hating.
You can't simply get a tom, dick or a harry from the road side and then say, OK let them drive and now we compare. You first have to earn a seat and to get a seat in a top team, you have to earn it. Simple. Vandoorne couldn't and Max did. To that extent, Max is certainly a better driver.
Scuderia1967 wrote:Jeez, you Jumbo Verstappen loverboys are really a tight unit, aren't you? :lol:
For intellectually challenged people, these discussions are too much to handle objectively and they seek a way out. You certainly found one with that statement. Cheers for you, yeah. =D>
I think a large component of your argument is confounded by the fact that Verstappen is the son of an ex-driver. Apart from proving to be an astute manager, Verstappen Snr has at his disposal a lifetime of interaction with the F1 fraternity, domain knowledge which provides a serious advantage to his son.

I'm not saying Max isn't more talented than Vandoorne. But he's certainly had a career path mapped out very well by several individuals with influence, something that raw talent can't provide.

Jolle
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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For the whole "who is better" arguments, isn't one of the key trades of a good (or best) driver(s) is the ability to be in the best car at the right moment?

Seeing that VanDoorne (or his management) choose the McLaren tour instead of the RedBull one, might take his way to a good car a bit longer. Also, in the long run, it's choosing the right class at the right moment very early in your career. For as it looks now, GP2 isn't the ultimate steppingstone anymore, but WSR takes that shot now.

At the moment, the only "product" of the McLaren program is it's real first member, Lewis Hamilton. The rest got sidetracked a little, you could even say, with Button and Alonso, both no products of their program, it kinda failed....

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superdowg316
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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I think a large component of your argument is confounded by the fact that Verstappen is the son of an ex-driver. Apart from proving to be an astute manager, Verstappen Snr has at his disposal a lifetime of interaction with the F1 fraternity, domain knowledge which provides a serious advantage to his son.

I'm not saying Max isn't more talented than Vandoorne. But he's certainly had a career path mapped out very well by several individuals with influence, something that raw talent can't provide.[/quote]
Max may be the son of an ex-F1 driver, but apart from Holland the Verstappen name wasn't that famous until Max came. I love Jos as a driver, but remember he finished 82 points behind his teammate who won the world championship in the same car as him in 1994, not exactly a grand representation of driver talent. Another thing to consider is that Jos hasn't raced since 2009, focusing on Max's career as he started getting more noticed while say Jan Magnussen was and still is racing in world championships in factory teams. Plus Max has been racing nonstop for 14 years, there is still a huge chance he can just give up from burnout in the future and Jos' investment goes down the drain completely.
Last edited by Steven on 05 Jun 2016, 20:04, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Removed quoted post just above
Friendship with Honda ended, Renault is my new (and more reliable) friend.

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SR71
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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PLEASE don't shoot the messenger!**

http://autosprint.corrieredellosport.it ... okieAccept

** I don't believe this article but thought it was appropriate to share here

Discuss! :)

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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SR71 wrote:PLEASE don't shoot the messenger!**

http://autosprint.corrieredellosport.it ... okieAccept

** I don't believe this article but thought it was appropriate to share here

Discuss! :)
Discussion is done and dusted. Follow this.... http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewto ... 50#p637915

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Chuckjr
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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A Lewis\Fred combo at Merc would be a historic driver offering by a team in F1. It would be epic. Two seasoned champions in cars capable of winning it all. Marc would really set itself up to win in such a situation. EVERYONE would respect them to a whole different level taking on two drivers like this, and I feel they have the management to get it done. It presents them an opportunity to regain some substance.

Furthermore, look what it does for Merc. It gives the championship legitimacy. They know right now nobody is really respecting the winner. Neither Lewis nor Nico respect each other, and this comes out in how they race almost every weekend and I am sure Merc is tired of the bs. The opposite would hold true, imo, between Fred and Lewis. They would be ruthless but fair. Whatever the case, switch to Fred and everyone will consider whoever wins, to be a worthy title holder as we all know its gonna be earned if those two guys are in Mercs.

It not only would be historic, but honestly theres not a person who takes part in this forum that would not be on the edge of their seat every weekend F1 was racing. Considering the state it is in now…that would be a remarkable turn around. I can only imagine the forum here lighting up like Christmas every weekend. It would be phenomenal.

TBH, I see Ecclestone behind this. He is DESPERATE to bring value to the sport again. A move like this he gets it overnight, literally.
Watching F1 since 1986.

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ME4ME
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Chuckjr wrote:A Lewis\Fred combo at Merc would be a historic driver offering by a team in F1. It would be epic. Two seasoned champions in cars capable of winning it all. Marc would really set itself up to win in such a situation. EVERYONE would respect them to a whole different level taking on two drivers like this, and I feel they have the management to get it done. It presents them an opportunity to regain some substance.

Furthermore, look what it does for Merc. It gives the championship legitimacy. They know right now nobody is really respecting the winner. Neither Lewis nor Nico respect each other, and this comes out in how they race almost every weekend and I am sure Merc is tired of the bs. The opposite would hold true, imo, between Fred and Lewis. They would be ruthless but fair. Whatever the case, switch to Fred and everyone will consider whoever wins, to be a worthy title holder as we all know its gonna be earned if those two guys are in Mercs.

It not only would be historic, but honestly theres not a person who takes part in this forum that would not be on the edge of their seat every weekend F1 was racing. Considering the state it is in now…that would be a remarkable turn around. I can only imagine the forum here lighting up like Christmas every weekend. It would be phenomenal.

TBH, I see Ecclestone behind this. He is DESPERATE to bring value to the sport again. A move like this he gets it overnight, literally.
I very much agree, but it all depends on Alonso and if he has a clause in his contract to leave Mclaren on the grounds of bad performance. Just like Vettel had when he left Red Bull. There is no way Ron Dennis would let him go voluntarily.

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GPR-A duplicate2
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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Chuckjr wrote:It presents them an opportunity to regain some substance.
What have they, to regain? Two double titles, 36 wins and 41 poles.
Chuckjr wrote:They know right now nobody is really respecting the winner.
Nobody respected Ferrari and Red Bull when dominated. Right? At the end of the day, only results speak, not the temporary emotions of how they were achieved.
Chujr wrote:Neither Lewis nor Nico respect each other, and this comes out in how they race almost every weekend and I am sure Merc is tired of the bs. The opposite would hold true, imo, between Fred and Lewis. They would be ruthless but fair. Whatever the case, switch to Fred and everyone will consider whoever wins, to be a worthy title holder as we all know its gonna be earned if those two guys are in Mercs.

It not only would be historic, but honestly theres not a person who takes part in this forum that would not be on the edge of their seat every weekend F1 was racing. Considering the state it is in now…that would be a remarkable turn around. I can only imagine the forum here lighting up like Christmas every weekend. It would be phenomenal.

TBH, I see Ecclestone behind this. He is DESPERATE to bring value to the sport again. A move like this he gets it overnight, literally.
All this is great for imagination. Mercedes would have to consider, what they are going to gain Vs what they lose.
1. Currently, they have two drivers who doesn't have drastically different setup likings for the car. That is A HUGE advantage as they can develop the car in A SINGLE direction. The evidence is clear with which Mercedes is progressing.
You have two tough cookies in the team and they drive the development in their own direction. You have to revisit how lost Red Bull were in the beginning of the 2012, when Vettel refused to use the new exhaust layout that didn't helped him and where Webber was happy on. They then changed the direction to suit Vettel. Webber was a clear No.2 and he accepted it without creating much of noise. If that happens between Lewis and Alonso, who would bend?
2. Currently, both drivers are in agreement of all the racing rules that Mercedes has put in place and accept the EQUAL OPPORTUNITY deal.
It is an established fact that, although Alonso is MACHINE like racer, he is still a notch slower on quali against the likes of Lewis and Vettel. I doubt if Alonso will accept the rules like the leading driver deserves the right to pit first and best strategy to the leading driver and alternate best strategy to the trailing driver.
3. Universally, every team that has won championships and sustained the winning form, has always gone with No.1 and No.2 concepts. Some have openly admitted it and some have not. You cannot have all STAR FORWARDS in your team, even if you are a Man U, Real M or Barca. Success in a team sport, can only be achieved through proper alignment of priorities.
4. With current line up at Mercedes, the racing management team still has upper hand over the team matters and having two, top of the line star drivers and their tantrums will reduce them to nuts. An accomplished and experienced man like Ron couldn't handle them in the past. The guys are good friends, but only when they are not in the same team.

Although the prospect of having Lewis and Fernando in the same is mouth watering, it is not practical.

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ME4ME
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Re: Silly Season 2016/2017

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GPR-A wrote:All this is great for imagination. Mercedes would have to consider, what they are going to gain Vs what they lose.
1. Currently, they have two drivers who doesn't have drastically different setup likings for the car. That is A HUGE advantage as they can develop the car in A SINGLE direction. The evidence is clear with which Mercedes is progressing.
You have two tough cookies in the team and they drive the development in their own direction. You have to revisit how lost Red Bull were in the beginning of the 2012, when Vettel refused to use the new exhaust layout that didn't helped him and where Webber was happy on. They then changed the direction to suit Vettel. Webber was a clear No.2 and he accepted it without creating much of noise. If that happens between Lewis and Alonso, who would bend?
2. Currently, both drivers are in agreement of all the racing rules that Mercedes has put in place and accept the EQUAL OPPORTUNITY deal.
It is an established fact that, although Alonso is MACHINE like racer, he is still a notch slower on quali against the likes of Lewis and Vettel. I doubt if Alonso will accept the rules like the leading driver deserves the right to pit first and best strategy to the leading driver and alternate best strategy to the trailing driver.
3. Universally, every team that has won championships and sustained the winning form, has always gone with No.1 and No.2 concepts. Some have openly admitted it and some have not. You cannot have all STAR FORWARDS in your team, even if you are a Man U, Real M or Barca. Success in a team sport, can only be achieved through proper alignment of priorities.
4. With current line up at Mercedes, the racing management team still has upper hand over the team matters and having two, top of the line star drivers and their tantrums will reduce them to nuts. An accomplished and experienced man like Ron couldn't handle them in the past. The guys are good friends, but only when they are not in the same team.

Although the prospect of having Lewis and Fernando in the same is mouth watering, it is not practical.
I'll bite.
1.) The technical team decides the overall development direction. Ultimately drivers all want the same general properties of a car. Fine tuning can be done through setup. There is no reason why Alonso would hamper car development.

2.) You're saying Rosberg does accept 2nd grade strategy, but Alonso doesn't? Your doing Rosberg dishonor. I think whatever agreement is in place between Mercedes and its drivers, Alonso would accept it in able to get access to the fastest car.

3.) It's not like they have a clear nr1&2 right now either. As you said, the lead driver gets the best strategy, and development items are shared equally.

4.) You're saying all is fine now? At least once a year, Rosberg and Hamilton have a coming-together. Not to mention the constant stress the team is under.

I think there are a couple of good reasons for Mercedes to replace Rosberg with Alonso:
- Reduce the current stress. Rejuvenate the team, much like Red Bull has done by promoting Verstappen.
- Show self believe and managerial strength
- Put together one of the most interesting intra team battles.
- Increased marketing opportunities, Alonso is more commonly known world-wide.
- Respect from fans and media