The Sauber F1 Team is pleased to announce that Pascal Wehrlein will complete the teamβs driver line-up for the 2017 Formula One World Championship. He will race alongside Swede Marcus Ericsson who continues with the Swiss team.
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Jolle wrote:
Speculation that it's Wolff's hand behind it.
No it is a Fact not speculation, Williams got some Fresh new "Mercedes Trucks" Replacing their old Renault Trucks and it isnt even co-incidence to see williams performing better when wolff handed over their shares and his wife being a Test driver for the team.....
Yes... you're not going to travel with the competitors trucks... but the bit where the PU is so much better that it cleared them away from McLaren and Force India?
You have to re-watch the entire 2014 F1 season again......Mercedes sort of clearly favoured their new partner and ignored the faithful partner (FI) since 2009 and the other from (McLaren) 1995.....Fanboyism has its limits...........
Samraj_official wrote:
So.....Ferrari was weak throught 2014 and Force India being 4th in the constructors midway 2014 and Williams and McLaren having 500 and 800 employees respectively............as a speculation????
Speculation that it's Wolff's hand behind it.
No it is a Fact not speculation, Williams got some Fresh new "Mercedes Trucks" Replacing their old Renault Trucks and it isnt even co-incidence to see williams performing better when wolff handed over their shares and his wife being a Test driver for the team.....
Jolle wrote:
Speculation that it's Wolff's hand behind it.
No it is a Fact not speculation, Williams got some Fresh new "Mercedes Trucks" Replacing their old Renault Trucks and it isnt even co-incidence to see williams performing better when wolff handed over their shares and his wife being a Test driver for the team.....
Williams simply had a better car.
Aided by Mercedes giving them Engine Design before hand than the other two customers, so that they can simply start the season with an advantage.....
What Samraj is saying is definately true, Mercedes favoured Williams clearly, stop demanding 'proof' as if he's not actually speaking a clear truth. It was clear during the entire 2014 season, Williams made a engine deal with Mercedes, after landing a Martini sponsorship, and they were boosted to the front of the field. They had zero experience with Mercedes compared to their competitors and were miles and miles ahead of the other Merc-powered teams. The points mentioned are all true and the relationship of Wolff with Williams was clear as day, thanks to Susie and his shares in the team. Indirectly, he helped Williams forward as he benefitted from that due to the shares, and obviously, the 'partnership' gave Merc more feedback than just their own team.
Mclaren was never gonna be an option for feedback knowing they'd step over to Honda power - or whatever they might do, the Merc deal was going to end period. So any info that they dont absolutely need to keep the engine running is prohibited. Force India was the other technical partner and they got the 'standard treatment'. And thats really the point, Williams did not get the 'standard treatment' like Force India did in 2014. They did as of 2015, but not in 2014. When 2015 started, Williams lost significant ground as to where they were before, and this year its no different. Yes, the competition moved forward, but so did Mercedes engine, and even though the power differene was a lot less in 2015 compared to 2014, Williams was far from the shape it was in in 2014.
Its bollocks to say Manor is not 'toto rosso', obviously they havent 'bought' the team, but just like williams made a giant leap forward after they got partnered with Mercedes, Manor has made a nearly impossible leap forward after spooning in Merc engines, all while everybody thought they were gone. Anybody not seeing Wolff / Mercedes finger involved in Manor is blind as a bat. Wehrlein in there, and now Ocon.
Is it totally accidental that haryanto and wehrlein were critised for blocking cars when getting lapped (blue flag ignore mode on)? How convenient that they seemed to influence the Ferrari's and the RB's the most, just like Williams was a perfect 'wedge' between Merc and Ferrari/RedBull in 2014.
Wolff recently stated about being crazy not to contract VanDoorne for a race seat, and that if he didnt get one, Wolff would make sure about that. I only can read that as Stoffel having a seat next year, and if it's up to Wolff, that means either Manor or perhaps still Williams. It would definately fit the 'Exciting line up' for Williams. I could definately see a Bottas - Vandoorne or a Perez - VanDoorne at Williams, keeping Mclaren another Button-Alonso pairing for 2017.
Or a Nasr - VanDoorne @ Williams.
If you think of it, it actually would make some sense for Mclaren NOT to put VanDoorne in the MCL next year.
Not because VanDoorne doesnt neccesarily has the skillset to perform, but because
A) Mclaren only has Lewis as a successfull 'rookie' in their topseat
B) The other ones has not proven to be the recipe they were looking for
C) They usually, like ferrari, prefer experienced drivers
D) Next year is different and they need all the feedback and experience they can get.
As good as VanDoorne MIGHT be, he has only one race GP experience. Williams would be a 'safe' place for Vandoorne, and then in 2018 to be promoted to Mclaren or??
For Mclaren it's important to build a beast for 2017+, and become the most wanted place to be. If they get there, they have their drivers to pick. Rosberg, Vettel, Ricciardo, Verstappen ? (his dad Jos actually had the opportunity but didnt do it).
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
Samraj_official wrote:
No it is a Fact not speculation, Williams got some Fresh new "Mercedes Trucks" Replacing their old Renault Trucks and it isnt even co-incidence to see williams performing better when wolff handed over their shares and his wife being a Test driver for the team.....
Williams simply had a better car.
Aided by Mercedes giving them Engine Design before hand than the other two customers, so that they can simply start the season with an advantage.....
First you say that they got the advantage because of a mid season ungraded and now it's because they had the plans before the rest?
Could it be that Williams sacrificed the whole of 2013 CFD/tunnel and budget on the 2014 car (even writing an extra 50mln of debt) and force India and McLaren were focused less on the '14 car in '13?
IMO Williams designed a pretty decent chassis for mid and low downforce tracks while Force India tried to go for a more all round design but less detailed and focussed. McLaren just made another mess of their car, overcompensating loosing the beam, trying to avoid another 2009 season.
Exactly. The McLaren car was a snowballing mess continued from 2013 and force idnia were basically broke once the new regs rolled in. We also had proof that the force india engine was just as strong as the williams one at the begining of the season going by results on the fast tracks.. Then afterward, because of the financial sitaution Force India were late at paying their bills so they got the engine upgrades very late too.
Let us not forget too that the engine in the McLaren was running on Esso fuels and lubricants so not the most optimized combustion and it was clear to see that they were not as potent as the other customers on the power tracks.
Because of these facts there was not any other option than to give williams the preference for upgrades. There was no under the table deal.
PlatinumZealot wrote:Exactly. The McLaren car was a snowballing mess continued from 2013 and force idnia were basically broke once the new regs rolled in. We also had proof that the force india engine was just as strong as the williams one at the begining of the season going by results on the fast tracks.. Then afterward, because of the financial sitaution Force India were late at paying their bills so they got the engine upgrades very late too.
Let us not forget too that the engine in the McLaren was running on Esso fuels and lubricants so not the most optimized combustion and it was clear to see that they were not as potent as the other customers on the power tracks.
Because of these facts there was not any other option than to give williams the preference for upgrades. There was no under the table deal.
You definitely have to read Manoah2u's excellent post again above and stop demanding proof that Mercedes Favoured Williams, everything happened that year and Williams went from Zero to Hero, without that treatment it would be impossible to see them in 3rd in WCC.....
This rubbish about Williams being handed an advantage by Mercedes is the (2nd) biggest load of ill-informed crap i have ever read on F1t. I was there at the time and you are all talking complete bollocks. Get a grip and stop putting 2 & 2 together to make 4567, which you then claim is a 'fact'
"A pretentious quote taken out of context to make me look deep" - Some old racing driver
Facts Only wrote:This rubbish about Williams being handed an advantage by Mercedes is the (2nd) biggest load of ill-informed crap i have ever read on F1t. I was there at the time and you are all talking complete bollocks. Get a grip and stop putting 2 & 2 together to make 4567, which you then claim is a 'fact'
Stop being Delusional about "Williams was better in 2014 B.S" , Williams cut a deal with Merc during Late 2013 and they were the first to receive the specification of Mercedes PU106 and this left an anti-competitive advantage to Williams through 2014 and continued till 2015........both FI and McLaren looked like Poorly sculpted cars early 2014..........if you still disagree then you must be a poor Williams Fanboy......
Going back to the point about McLaren not retaining Button next year, I will be severely disappointed but not surprised. Button stuck it out and didn't make inflammatory remarks like "GP2 engine" (I like Fernando also but that was OTT) however, just as the car starts to perform the team look set to dump him.
As I said, it is not a surprise but it would have been good to see Button have 1 year alongside Alonso in a car that wasn't struggling to keep up with the midfield teams.
Well so far for an 'exciting' Williams lineup then.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"
Facts Only wrote:This rubbish about Williams being handed an advantage by Mercedes is the (2nd) biggest load of ill-informed crap i have ever read on F1t. I was there at the time and you are all talking complete bollocks. Get a grip and stop putting 2 & 2 together to make 4567, which you then claim is a 'fact'
Stop being Delusional about "Williams was better in 2014 B.S" , Williams cut a deal with Merc during Late 2013 and they were the first to receive the specification of Mercedes PU106 and this left an anti-competitive advantage to Williams through 2014 and continued till 2015........both FI and McLaren looked like Poorly sculpted cars early 2014..........if you still disagree then you must be a poor Williams Fanboy......
Yeah I'm a poor Williams fan boy and you know everything.... Or... I'm the guy who was working for one of the companies at the time dealing with the other company we are talking about and I know what really went on and you are just a screeching conspiracy theorist goon?
"A pretentious quote taken out of context to make me look deep" - Some old racing driver
Samraj_official wrote:
Stop being Delusional about "Williams was better in 2014 B.S" , Williams cut a deal with Merc during Late 2013 and they were the first to receive the specification of Mercedes PU106 and this left an anti-competitive advantage to Williams through 2014 and continued till 2015........both FI and McLaren looked like Poorly sculpted cars early 2014..........if you still disagree then you must be a poor Williams Fanboy......
What deal? And deal has two sides to it. What did Mercedes gain from this, deal?
Facts Only wrote:This rubbish about Williams being handed an advantage by Mercedes is the (2nd) biggest load of ill-informed crap i have ever read on F1t. I was there at the time and you are all talking complete bollocks. Get a grip and stop putting 2 & 2 together to make 4567, which you then claim is a 'fact'
Didn't you work as a janitor for McLaren or something?
