Points left to grab the championship - who and how?

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rscsr
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Joined: 19 Feb 2012, 13:02
Location: Austria

Re: Points left to grab the championship - who and how?

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Jackuar wrote:
Manoah2u wrote:Offcourse there are more than two cars. But if we look into the Mercedes domination, then theoretically, if everything goes well - no driver contact, and no technical DNFs - then it doesnt matter if there are 20 cars or 30 cars in the field.

Let's just imagine both Mercedes' driving off at the start and the car in P1 pulling a 1,5 + second gap on the 2nd car killing any DRS possibility,
and the 2nd car pulling a 30 sec. gap on the car in P3 in every race. that means free pit stops for both Mercs, and lets see it as no 'undercutting' by a P2 driver,
but P1 driver pitting first, and the P2 driver simply pitting next fair and square.

In other words, the races would be either decided in the qualification. Rather boring, i know, but it's all theoretic.
Or just have the P2 driver come close to the P1 driver in the middle of the race and then overtaking him fair and square and then keeping that P1.

again, theoretically.

WHAT would be the way the championship would be decided?
Free practice is NOT a qualified event, so it doesnt count. But in the case that even that would be concidered, imagine as crazy as all FP's also having EXACTLY the same ties.

again, i'm not willing to discuss how improbable and unlikely this is.
I'm rather curious on what would be decided if such a thing happens.

All i could come up with is who would win the first GP OR who would win the last GP. both would have their 'backing' to be honest.
First GP WIN would simply show that that driver was the very first to be 'better' than the other.
on the other hand, the last gp could be seen as the 'decisive' factor as it's the last GP.
I'm simply wondering whether such a 'rule' or 'means of decision' already excists or not. I could imagine that if such a thing does happen, and no rule exists,
that they might decide in advance after the pre-final race, that in the case of the final race resulting in a complete tie, that the winner of that race becomes WDC.

Again, rather curious whether all grounds have already been covered or not.
My two cents. I don't know if this has been covered in the rule book but if it happens, then most probably they're declared co-champions. A lesser possible decision could be, if they wanted strictly single champion only, then the defending champion retains his title because the challenger 'matched' him but didn't 'defeat' him.
According to the sporting regulations:
FIA F1 Sporting Regulations 2017 wrote:7) DEAD HEAT
7.1 Prizes and points awarded for all the positions of competitors who tie, will be added together
and shared equally.
7.2 If two or more constructors or drivers finish the season with the same number of points, the
higher place in the Championship (in either case) shall be awarded to :
a) The holder of the greatest number of first places.
b) If the number of first places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of second
places.
c) If the number of second places is the same, the holder of the greatest number of third
places and so on until a winner emerges.
d) If this procedure fails to produce a result, the FIA will nominate the winner according to
such criteria as it thinks fit.
So the FIA would just choose something, when such a situation occurs.

Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Points left to grab the championship - who and how?

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THANKS!

so lol @ "According to such cirteria as it thinks fit".

that would be quite the stir.

I do like the mention above of Jackuar
the defending champion retains his title because the challenger 'matched' him but didn't 'defeat' him.
anyway, clear as day now. thanks!
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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Phil
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Joined: 25 Sep 2012, 16:22
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Re: Points left to grab the championship - who and how?

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I think so too. Abu Dhabi is low risk - he'll get in the bankers that will put him on the front row, but for any second attempt, he can go more risk as the likely hood of ending in the wall is slim to non-existent.

He's biggest concern will be the state of his engine. So better to save it to not run into any trouble and risk a DNF.

Assuming a technical issue with the car and a 5-grid drop (gearbox?), I'd still expect him to end up on the podium and clinch the title. Easily.


It's funny, one has to ask which championship posed the greatest challenge:

2007:
Kimi Raikoennen clinched it despite a 7 point deficit (3rd in a 3 way fight) = 7 points / 10 = 70% behind.

2010:
Sebastian Vettel clinched it despite a 15 point deficit (3rd in a 4way fight) = 15 points / 25 = 60% behind.

2016:
Lewis Hamilton is behind by 12 points which equals being 48% behind.

Now one can argue, that Lewis's 2016 championship bid is the most unlikeliest, because it's effectively a two-tier race. I don't see any of the other cars being much of an influencing factor. In 2007, the two way fight between Hamilton and Alonso probably led directly to Kimi winning it, but even so, the Ferrari was quite competitive. In 2010, it was Alonso's to lose and Vettel being the 3rd outsider with a mathematical chance of winning it, clinched it through extraordinary circumstances. Alonso got stuck behind traffic, while Vettel won the race. 2010 was also unprecedented considering 4 were in title contention and each of these 4 drivers - Lewis, Alonso, Vettel and Webber - had multiple wins to their name. One could say that the cars were closely matched and created the unpredictable outcome in that very last race.
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
#Team44 supporter

Manoah2u
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Joined: 24 Feb 2013, 14:07

Re: Points left to grab the championship - who and how?

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The fact it's only down between those 2 eases pressure for either of them. If Rosberg had additional pressure from for example Ricciardo or Raikkonen, then he is less likely to get away with 'coasting around', something he can afford in the past races and in the AbuDhabi race. Coasting, because the car is so fast that it somehow 'naturally' bounces back to the podium without much of an effort. Also, the team has great tactical planners so the road is paved rather 'easily' to say it as such.

The ease for Rosberg is that i'm 100% sure that Mercedes and Rosberg accepts that Lewis can have all the Poles and P1 finishes, and simply adjusting Nico's car to battle for 2nd or 3rd instead of 1st. Essentially, make it better in overtaking. I think Rosberg is calm headed enough this year, especially now, that he knows he can do a zillion of tactics to still come out WDC.

2nd or 3rd and he's WDC. He doesn't need to bother. He'll accept that the glory of winning a GP does not value the risk of potentially trashing it and then losing the WDC due to getting 'greedy'.

The 2016 WDC is 'easily' in Rosberg's hands. it has to go rather unfortunate for him to lose it now. He can finish 3rd and still celebrate. Meaning, if Mercedes needs to worry about Verstappen having a go at Nico, then i'm 100% sure the team will make sure Nico simply doesn't put up too much of a fight as he's still WDC. It's not like Mercedes is still fighting for the WCC.

Mercedes just has to mind the following tactics for Nico:

save FP1,FP2,FP3, Q1 and Q2 power to just home in a classy Q3 and get P2, perhaps even P1 if Lewis is unlucky, or if Nico is feeling jiggy.
save fuel, get the car in overtaking mode, and save tires to have a variety of tactics available for Nico for any possible outcome.
keep a close eye on the RedBulls, particularly the 2nd one. Meaning, don't worry too much about 1 of them, just keep an eye on the other RedBull behind that he keeps behind
far enough to not be able to impose a threat.
keep talking calming words to Nico so he doesn't get riled up in the end.
worst case scenario: Nico loses WDC, get all means ready to sooth him and comfort him so he doesnt go insane on losing it.

Mercedes has to mind the following tactics for Lewis:

save FP1, FP2, FP3, Q1 and Q2 power to get an all out Q3 lap that give him the tiniest edge to get that so hardly needed Pole.
fuel saving could get critical during the latter stages of the race if a SC does not appear, so make sure the gap to anyone behind is big enough to deal with it.
keep tire wear under close vigilance and calculate all possible pitstops to 'protect' that P1, a single error or judgement error will result in a loss of WDC for Lew'.
keep all systems under close eye so the car doesn't get fried again.
keep a seriously close eye on the redbulls. if max or daniel gets too close, that's a big big problem.
dont talk too much to lewis or you might mess his concentration up and be the reason of his non-WDC.
make sure his car doesn't fck up a start.

pressure is high on lewis side of the garage however you want to put it.
nico could go social media instead this weekend.

as for AbuDhabi, there are only a few things to concider which have a impact on the race outcome

A) Race start. anything can happen.
B) 1st 3 corners. anything can happen.
C) rest of first lap. all it takes is a messy situation and you'll have a (V)SC.
D) Max Verstappen and Vettel
E) Safety Car restarts. Lewis will be safe from danger if Nico is immediately behind him. anybody but Nico behind him is a risk. if Nico loses 2 places after the restart, they'll be able to tactic their way back again either 1 position or even 2 positions up.
F) pit stops MUST BE PERFECT
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

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Formula Wrong
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Re: Points left to grab the championship - who and how?

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Manoah2u wrote: fuel saving could get critical during the latter stages of the race if a SC does not appear, so make sure the gap to anyone behind is big enough to deal with it.
Are you sure about that? In the past year (actually neither in 2014 or 2015) I've never had the feeling that fuel saving was a huge issue for anyone.
If you no longer go for the space someone always has to leave, you're no longer a racing driver

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