End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

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PlatinumZealot
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by PlatinumZealot » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:51 pm

This was supposed to be the "thinking drivers" era, where drivers like Max, kimi and Lewis were supposed to downright struggle to make it to the finish line. We were wrong.
"Raindrops .. drop top!"

strad
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by strad » Mon Dec 19, 2016 2:40 am

I hope at the closure of this "Narrow cars, V6T" era, we can also close off the "Tyres are crap and cannot be pushed" part of F1's history.
Man .. I certainly second that.
I would also really applaud less clag ,, but I don't think that is likely. More tire will probably equal more clag.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

Manoah2u
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Manoah2u » Mon Dec 19, 2016 1:25 pm

As long as this trash pirelli brand is in F1, we're stuck to this BS. I don't know if it was Bernie, Todt, or CVC's idea to run it like this, but it's hurting F1 nonetheless.
We don't need bulletproof Bridgestones, but neither do we need artificial nonsensical exploding tires. They should have brought in a different supplier and fired
Pirelli after the exploding tire incidents, but it's all about wuss management nowadays.

I really would have liked to see Michelin return.

untill which year has Pirelli made a deal ?
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Gaz.
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Gaz. » Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:29 pm

Unfortunately we have another three seasons with Pirelli.
Forza Jules

Pierce89
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Pierce89 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:33 am

strad wrote:
I hope at the closure of this "Narrow cars, V6T" era, we can also close off the "Tyres are crap and cannot be pushed" part of F1's history.
Man .. I certainly second that.
I would also really applaud less clag ,, but I don't think that is likely. More tire will probably equal more clag.
Yeah the WEC Michelins that are "bulletproof" still cover the track in marbles like crazy. As far as I know most all modern high level race tires do it.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

zac510
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by zac510 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:04 am

I remember as a kid picking up marbles from the track in the early 90s (F1 of course).
I also walked Suzuka after the race this year and there really was not that much tyre debris.
You're all dreaming of the perfect tyre which is impossible. You'll always be disappointed waiting for that perfect tyre.

mclaren111
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Location: JHB Hell Hole - South Africa

Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by mclaren111 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:15 am

rich1701:
I don't like the PU's simply because of their sound. they kind of remind me of an old soprano singing with a very bad cold. I've been going to GP's all my life, i remember the first time Mika Hakkinen drove past me in the mp4/15 and it absolutely blew my socks off, it was mind blowing. and sadly I don't think the specticle will be like that again. :roll:
Agree. I saw the last GP in South Africa in 1993 and the sound was absolutely awesome !!

Anything they can do to increase that and get close to the "Good old Days" would be welcomed [-o< [-o< [-o<

santos
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by santos » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:39 pm

I like F1 for the racing factor. I don't know why people are always talking about the sound. About the tires... well i think there are too many . Hard, soft, super soft, ultra soft... did i miss some?
Too many types of tires are killing the racing.

NL_Fer
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by NL_Fer » Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:53 pm

They dropped downforce because it was unsafe, the cars could not follow and there was no overtaking. They reduced downforce, reduced tire life and still racing got worse. Rain racing was more unsafe now, still over following/overtaking because the tyres would go byebye. Next year we will be back to 1997and see were it goes.

I'd say spice it up with a bigger mgu-k and see how it develops.

nokivasara
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by nokivasara » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:22 pm

Manoah2u wrote:As long as this trash pirelli brand is in F1, we're stuck to this BS. I don't know if it was Bernie, Todt, or CVC's idea to run it like this, but it's hurting F1 nonetheless.
We don't need bulletproof Bridgestones, but neither do we need artificial nonsensical exploding tires. They should have brought in a different supplier and fired
Pirelli after the exploding tire incidents, but it's all about wuss management nowadays.

I really would have liked to see Michelin return.

untill which year has Pirelli made a deal ?
Pirelli would make better tires if they were allowed to.
Bridgestone made long lasting tires because the regs demanded that.

I remember when the narrow era was introduced and Mclaren unveiled a very nice orange mp4-13, too bad it was just for show.
Last edited by nokivasara on Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mansell89
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Mansell89 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 7:25 pm

I couldn't be more thankful that these three seasons are over. I don't think it's been this boring for some time.

The power units have achieved some incredible technical feats on less fuel, but Formula 1 is a sport and a spectacle, and the new power units have ripped out one of the very core adrenaline fuels from our sport.

As people have already said, the riproaring sound brought goosebumps, and when you have a dominant team like Mercedes, it would be nice if they at least sounded and looked glorious in their domination.

I feel like the whole three years has been watered down F1.

The decision making and the thought processes behind it are astounding. Who ever sat down and decided to effectively LOCK IN performance advantage by banning in season testing and creating an embarrassing token system to prevent anyone catching up?

It was the equivalent of telling Arsenal that if they started slowly in the Premier League and were 5 points behind Man City, they weren't allowed to train to try and get any better.

And all in the name of "cost saving to help the smaller teams".

Well, IF WE DISTRIBUTE THE INCOME MORE EVENLY....

It has been awful. Manufacturers are now running F1 for their own road car purposes, whereas F1 should be an incredible sport and show that is a privilege to get your brand in as a result of the exposure.

F1 is coming off second best to other influences, and that's where it has gone really wrong.

It's racing. It's sport. If we ever lose sight of those two things, call it a day.

Manoah2u
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Manoah2u » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:56 pm

nokivasara wrote:
Manoah2u wrote:As long as this trash pirelli brand is in F1, we're stuck to this BS. I don't know if it was Bernie, Todt, or CVC's idea to run it like this, but it's hurting F1 nonetheless.
We don't need bulletproof Bridgestones, but neither do we need artificial nonsensical exploding tires. They should have brought in a different supplier and fired
Pirelli after the exploding tire incidents, but it's all about wuss management nowadays.

I really would have liked to see Michelin return.

untill which year has Pirelli made a deal ?
Pirelli would make better tires if they were allowed to.
Bridgestone made long lasting tires because the regs demanded that.

I remember when the narrow era was introduced and Mclaren unveiled a very nice orange mp4-13, too bad it was just for show.
orange macca's are great indeed.

to be honest, i still don't concider this the definative 'end' of the narrow era. cars got fatter now and do the tires, but the suspension / wheels were positioned still rather wider than they are for 2017. its back in the right direction though, i'd say
Dumpster sounds so much more classy. It's the diamond of the cesspools.

Pierce89
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Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 5:38 pm

Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Pierce89 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:35 am

Manoah2u wrote:
nokivasara wrote:
Manoah2u wrote:As long as this trash pirelli brand is in F1, we're stuck to this BS. I don't know if it was Bernie, Todt, or CVC's idea to run it like this, but it's hurting F1 nonetheless.
We don't need bulletproof Bridgestones, but neither do we need artificial nonsensical exploding tires. They should have brought in a different supplier and fired
Pirelli after the exploding tire incidents, but it's all about wuss management nowadays.

I really would have liked to see Michelin return.

untill which year has Pirelli made a deal ?
Pirelli would make better tires if they were allowed to.
Bridgestone made long lasting tires because the regs demanded that.

I remember when the narrow era was introduced and Mclaren unveiled a very nice orange mp4-13, too bad it was just for show.
orange macca's are great indeed.

to be honest, i still don't concider this the definative 'end' of the narrow era. cars got fatter now and do the tires, but the suspension / wheels were positioned still rather wider than they are for 2017. its back in the right direction though, i'd say
Huh? the new cars will.be the widest ever in the floor, as I believe it was limited 1400mm even in the 2m track width era.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

strad
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Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:57 am

Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by strad » Thu Dec 22, 2016 3:56 am

As far as I know most all modern high level race tires do it.
What you see is not what has to be.
Much of the drop in lap times over the years has not been from horsepower or aerodynamics or certainly not from better drivers, but rather from gumball super sticky tires. And that is where we get so many marbles which plays havoc with the racing.
Do you want lap times or racing? I wonder sometimes which it is modern fans want.
Motorsport without danger is like cooking without salt
Sir Stirling Moss

Restomaniac
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Re: End of the V6t/Narrow Car Era.

Post by Restomaniac » Wed Dec 28, 2016 8:24 pm

ENGINE TUNER wrote:
dans79 wrote:
rscsr wrote: just read the technical regulations for 2017 and you will see that there won't be an increase in fuel flow.
Thanks, i did't notice that they finally published the regs on the 13th.


however this is just stupid, as the only thing its going to do is help on some tracks where fuel needed to be conserved, as 5.1.5 is still the same.

2016:
5.1.4 Fuel mass flow must not exceed 100kg/h.
5.1.5 Below 10500rpm the fuel mass flow must not exceed Q (kg/h) = 0.009 N(rpm)+ 5.5.
2017:
5.1.4 Fuel mass flow must not exceed 100kg/h.
5.1.5 Below 10500rpm the fuel mass flow must not exceed Q (kg/h) = 0.009 N(rpm)+ 5.5.
I highly doubt that any car will ever run with 105kg in the tanks next season, actually a smart team could get an advantage by continuing to run the same size tank as this year and most teams are already underfilling for a majority of 2016 races.
If I'm the FIA I get the boffins to work out what the maximum usage is by the thirstiest car and add 5Kg to that and have that as a MINIMUM. They need to stop the fuel saving BS that keeps going on.



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