Why early 90s cars couldn't go flat out through Eau rouge

[NL_Fer]

Have seen Eau Rouge for real, just looks like driving up a wall. Any other corner comparable to the steepness?

[Juzh]

This is how eau rouge has been driven in 2016:



As you can see even the top cars are only flat a couple of times. The power of the V6 has made this corner somewhat challenging again.

[PlatinumZealot]

@ Pierce. Wouldn't you say that is big brains rather than big balls though? How I view, balls take over when the brain says, nope! I'm out.

[Andres125sx]

This is how eau rouge has been driven in 2016:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ml4NGKdm9w

As you can see even the top cars are only flat a couple of times. The power of the V6 has made this corner somewhat challenging again.

So people is discussing about.... nothing!

[wesley123]

This is how eau rouge has been driven in 2016:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ml4NGKdm9w

As you can see even the top cars are only flat a couple of times. The power of the V6 has made this corner somewhat challenging again.

That's more tire management and total weight than a different engine. Plus, the inner kerb onto the straight was pretty nasty, which indirectly means a tighter line.

[Juzh]

This is how eau rouge has been driven in 2016:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ml4NGKdm9w

As you can see even the top cars are only flat a couple of times. The power of the V6 has made this corner somewhat challenging again.

That's more tire management and total weight than a different engine. Plus, the inner kerb onto the straight was pretty nasty, which indirectly means a tighter line.

I disagree.
It would be silly to suggest V6 turbo engine power output netting an average of 30 kmh extra entry speed over the V8s has nothing to do with it.

[WaikeCU]

Do we have another corner where you need big balls?

Melbourne turn 11-12
Monza turn 1
Monaco turn 1, 10, 13-14,
Suzuka turn 15


I would say Baku has some as well, the speed the cars carry between the concrete walls are very high.

[wesley123]

This is how eau rouge has been driven in 2016:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ml4NGKdm9w

As you can see even the top cars are only flat a couple of times. The power of the V6 has made this corner somewhat challenging again.

That's more tire management and total weight than a different engine. Plus, the inner kerb onto the straight was pretty nasty, which indirectly means a tighter line.

I disagree.
It would be silly to suggest V6 turbo engine power output netting an average of 30 kmh extra entry speed over the V8s has nothing to do with it.

In comparison, the pole lap was flat out. If the issue was the extra speed the PU brings then the pole lap wouldn't be flat out either.

[toraabe]

Paul Richard Signes. But without chicane on the mistral of course.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uENninkTyBQ

[Juzh]

That's more tire management and total weight than a different engine. Plus, the inner kerb onto the straight was pretty nasty, which indirectly means a tighter line.

I disagree.
It would be silly to suggest V6 turbo engine power output netting an average of 30 kmh extra entry speed over the V8s has nothing to do with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEG59rtdSUA
In comparison, the pole lap was flat out. If the issue was the extra speed the PU brings then the pole lap wouldn't be flat out either.

Quali =/= race conditions.
Extra power is a contributor (the biggest one imo). By extreme example, if cars had 2000 horsepower no one would dare to go flat trough there. Weight and tire condition play a role of course, but they did so in previous years as well. The only major difference is engine power.

[wesley123]

Quali =/= race conditions.
Extra power is a contributor (the biggest one imo). By extreme example, if cars had 2000 horsepower no one would dare to go flat trough there. Weight and tire condition play a role of course, but they did so in previous years as well. The only major difference is engine power.

Indeed, Quali isn't race conditions. However, what is the difference between Quali and the race? You have to run a whole race on a single fuel load and have to manage your tires.

If power was the main contributor you'd see them lift in Quali as well, which they didn't, even though they run with more power in quali

[thisisatest]

At first, they all lift, dropping under 300kph at the bottom. Later, all but Kimi stop lifting unless they're following someone.
Vettel makes a couple runs following and not lifting. On his later passes, his minimum speed while in tow wasn't affected by whether he lifted or not.
Even with a lift, Hamilton stayed above 310 while in tow.
Kimi lifts the most.

[rich1701]

I think a factor to consider is a more extensive stalling of the floor when bottoming out going through corners like eau rouge in the early 90s. When the plank was introduced in 94 this stalling effect was reduced.

[bettonracing]

Other suspected contributors you may consider include:

• Tires (<-- I suspect this could be one of the larger contributors)
• Downforce consistency in cornering (especially considering the dynamics involved in Eau Rouge)
• Center of Gravity height reduction
• Suspension geometry & component optimization
• Steering force & feedback optimization (Side note: were variable ratio racks available back then?)
• 15% longer wheelbases (~3000mm compared to ~3500mm), indirectly contributing to yaw stability
• Reduced unsprung mass
• Narrower track and car widths (by itself would imply a slower [read: more controlled] yaw rate)

Regards,
Kurt

[bhall II]

I think a factor to consider is a more extensive stalling of the floor when bottoming out going through corners like eau rouge in the early 90s. When the plank was introduced in 94 this stalling effect was reduced.

I suspect it's more about the step plane, but I think that's the correct answer as far as the cars are concerned.

A flat-bottom car needs a higher ride height to avoid the aerodynamic consequences of bottoming out through Raidillon. Relative to a given baseline configuration, increasing ride height tends to significantly reduce downforce, which then makes it difficult, if not impossible, to take such a corner flat-out.

The fixed gap formed by the step plane makes bottoming out less problematic.



With regard to current difficulties, I agree that it's likely tire-related. Do something like this too often (standing waves)...



...and something like this is inevitable:



Since standing waves are principally caused by overloading the tire, the added weight of race fuel makes matters worse.