SA-07 now out

[Sawtooth-spike]

Just been looking quickly at the new Super aguri, I have to has even thought its a little honda like, its no more so than the saubers and ferrari used to be.

i would put a picture on but i am at work.

[joseff]

Have they lost all the sponsors from last season? And what is SS United Oil & Gas anyway?

[furnik]

so saw tooth so u dont call engine intake the air directors at the front edge of the side pod the gearbox the engine and the las thing the tub. now is what u cal not the same saw tooth. its a clone

[Sawtooth-spike]

Well,


Sidepods are a differant shape, Intakes are a differant shape, Nose Section is total differant, Front wing is differant, engine cover has similar flip ups but so does every other car on the Grid. Front wing attaches to the noce cone differantly, and plus it has the second wing. Side pod boards are a differant shape. Air box is a differant shape.

Its last years honda with alot of tweeks.

[RacingManiac]

tie-rod is at the same place as the old Honda.....in that odd between upper and lower a-arm position, which was unique to the RA106 and F1 in general probably in the last decade.......

I don't think it was a copy of the new Honda like the 2007 Red Bull/STR situation, It was maybe more like STR using Redbull's old car like 2006...

With the new Honda powertrain of course though....

[Fan Solo]

Go Super Aguri!!!

Good luck to 'em I say, they have my support once I can actually get some merch'.

The car looks substantially different to the earthmobile & well its nowhere near the blatant clone that is the RB/TR.

Spyker & Williams best start worrying..... Aguri is coming!!

[joseff]

Anthony Davidson would like to add Toyota to that list. When that happens, well... let's just say human excrement will well and truly hit the fan.

[ss_collins]

I'm sure this car is legal its what the RA106 would look like if development had continued with another team. SA07 is an evolution of RA106 and SA106 but a big evolution. Totally different aero but a similar tub and rear end. But not the same tub of course - the roll hoop is similar in shape but the base of the protrusion on the airbox is different - so it suggests to me at leas that that section of the car has been re crash tested.

Sides we know have been, nose must have been too as its significantly altered, rear too as its not the same as last year (though could one rear test cover SA07 and RA107? dunno if thats allowed, certainly Courage crash tested the LC7x tub once for LC70 and 75). Aguri (and Honda R&D Tochigi) have produced what is essentially a new cr based on old data...

be interesting to hear what Spyker has to say in a few hours - I think Aguri is off the hook. But Red Bull???

[manchild]

Spyker & Williams best start worrying..... Aguri is coming!!

What is coming, Aguri is coming??? Because they've put Aguri sticker over Honda RA 106??? So, that makes it Aguri and not Honda??? Why aren't rich people than buying Hyundai and replacing Hyundai if different name and logo on same car make that car a different one?

"Spyker & Williams best start worrying"? Worrying about what, that cheaters who have no clue how to design a single nut will bribe someone at the FIA? Aguri and RBR/STR can buy whatever they like but they'll never be able to buy what Williams has - respect, dignity, honesty and honor.

I really don't get best wishes to Aguri or RBR/STR. What did they do to deserve such consideration? Are we going to start respecting teams that don't construct a single part on their car and sarcastically suggest that honest teams like Williams and Spyker should be afraid of something?

Sir Frank and Patrick Head are in F1 to show that they can construct winning car and that is something Aguri and RBR/STR are certainly not. Being Honda's unofficial B team or money laundering or advertising profit-wise or whatever is not constructing or racing.

They can look like other teams and on first glance appear to do what other teams are doing but that's just form, essence is that they're cheaters who came in F1 for the cause that has nothing to do with constructors or drivers championship. They came to make money and I hope they get ban that will make them sell their fake teams.

Already a topic open for this

viewtopic.php?p=48362#48362

and They look nothing alike. this Years Honda and the SA 07 are Totaly differant cars.

um roll hoop the air directors at the front edge of the side pod the gearbox the engine and the las thing the tub. now is what u cal not the same saw tooth.

No one said they look like 2007 Honda, it is 2006 Honda, RA106. Identical car.

[joseff]

I share your sentiment about cheaters manchild, but this car isn't a blatant copy of the RA106 like the RBR/STR pair is.

From the few pics we have it looks like:
the Aguri SA07 is to the Honda RA106, as
the Sauber C23 was to the Ferrari F2003-GA,
ie. much developed versions of the older car. New tub and roll hoop, new motor (which means new cooling system), new sidepods and new bodywork. Looks like a new car to me.

[Sawtooth-spike]

]Already a topic open for this

viewtopic.php?p=48362#48362

and They look nothing alike. this Years Honda and the SA 07 are Totaly differant cars.

um roll hoop the air directors at the front edge of the side pod the gearbox the engine and the las thing the tub. now is what u cal not the same saw tooth.

No one said they look like 2007 Honda, it is 2006 Honda, RA106. Identical car.

Yeah, Its is the RA106 With tweeks, Furnik on the other topic did a picture of the Sa-07 next to the RA107, this is what i am talking about.

[Fan Solo]

Spyker & Williams best start worrying..... Aguri is coming!!

What is coming, Aguri is coming??? Because they've put Aguri sticker over Honda RA 106??? So, that makes it Aguri and not Honda??? Why aren't rich people than buying Hyundai and replacing Hyundai if different name and logo on same car make that car a different one?

"Spyker & Williams best start worrying"? Worrying about what, that cheaters who have no clue how to design a single nut will bribe someone at the FIA? Aguri and RBR/STR can buy whatever they like but they'll never be able to buy what Williams has - respect, dignity, honesty and honor.

I really don't get best wishes to Aguri or RBR/STR. What did they do to deserve such consideration? Are we going to start respecting teams that don't construct a single part on their car and sarcastically suggest that honest teams like Williams and Spyker should be afraid of something?

Sir Frank and Patrick Head are in F1 to show that they can construct winning car and that is something Aguri and RBR/STR are certainly not. Being Honda's unofficial B team or money laundering or advertising profit-wise or whatever is not constructing or racing.

They can look like other teams and on first glance appear to do what other teams are doing but that's just form, essence is that they're cheaters who came in F1 for the cause that has nothing to do with constructors or drivers championship. They came to make money and I hope they get ban that will make them sell their fake teams.

Already a topic open for this

viewtopic.php?p=48362#48362

and They look nothing alike. this Years Honda and the SA 07 are Totaly differant cars.

um roll hoop the air directors at the front edge of the side pod the gearbox the engine and the las thing the tub. now is what u cal not the same saw tooth.

No one said they look like 2007 Honda, it is 2006 Honda, RA106. Identical car.

Hmmm, Im normally in agreement with most things you say Manchild but not when it comes to SA. Cant design a nut? harsh! for a team to bring a 4yr old Arrows & make it relatively competitive over a season Im sure they know a thing or two.

Woo, so SA are Honda B team, Whats their budget compared to TR?
A bit different I bet. And anyway its still a small team & its the drivers who are important, Taku can always be relied upon for a bit of excitement & its about time AD got a run out too.

Williams are indeed true F1 racers, I cant argue with that but I do hope the 'Toyota Way' doesn't come along with the engine deal cos their in doo doo if it does.

I will support whoever I bloomin well like regardless of all the technicalities in the background, F1 is in a constant state of change & it sounds to me like your stuck in the past, so I repeat c'mon Super Aguri!


FS

[Steven]

As for the budget of SA, I can say it's close to 90 million. It's about the same as STR and a bit more than Spyker.

I also would not say Super Aguri can't design anything, they did a pretty good job last year. Yes they has the Honda gearbox for their SA06, but they made the aero package with just 4 people working on a windtunnel.
Considering that they gained about 4.5 seconds during 2006 and were 7th fastest during the race at Brazil, I would definitely say that is an accomplishment.

Anyway, this SA07 is indeed not a simple copy but an evolved version of the Honda RA106. One of the most obvious things is the steering bar being in between the frontal wishbones. Honda was the only team last year with such a setup

It's all arguable, but Spyker and any other team watch their competitors closely too. That's just Formula One. And hey, just for this one year, I rather have 4 extra cars on the grid which are copied than 2 teams less

[scarbs]

This is curious debate, what constitutes a copy? Let's not be naïve this car is based on the Honda RA106 raced last year by the Honda factory team. However that is not to say this car uses any of the actual original design of the RA106.

The rules state the cars design must belong to the team, However the design of assemblies\components can be bought in (just as with Brake Callipers and Wheels) and own designed parts can be manufactured by third parties (you'd be surprise dhow little some team actually make).
If the engine and gearbox are designed and supplied by Honda R&D, Just as the factory teams are, they are effectively bought-in components. Then the car is just the monocoque, impact structures, aero and suspension. If the team started with the RA106 design they would have had to redesign just about everything to accommodate the new safety regs, aero regs, Bridgestone tyres. In some of these respects the teams necessity to design new parts has been proven, as the car failed its crash tests. Thus we could say that the car is all new, despite the starting point being the RA106. In my view this is more of a new car than the new Torro Rosso or even the 2006 Torro Rosso, not to mention the old Super Aguri that actually used the old Arrows monocoque and parts.

Looking at the SA07, its clear that a lot of the influential Df generating parts are new, With their limited resources this makes sense in where they have set their priorities. The sidepod shape appears to be largely carried over and is more a function of exhaust pipe and cooling than much else, although the chimneys and winglet are new and now mounted together. The car has shed some of the Honda philosophies in the front wing, bargeboards, and pod wings. Equally it has shed the odd curve fins either side of the cockpit for more conventional fins mid way along the nose. The rear wing now has an aggressive flap jutting out from the rear impact structure

Scarbs...

[manchild]

Let me put it this way: How was Aguri able to develop Honda's chassis, suspension and aero unless Honda gave them or sold them design/blueprints You can't develop something unless you have it. The only way for Aguri to acquire RA106 design was if Honda sold it or gave it away for free. Both of those two options are illegal.

Aguri has RA106 design and it developed it. No one says SA07 and RA106 are absolutely identical but SA07 is evolution of RA106 design and since Honda registered that design in 2006 than it can't appear elsewhere as a design of some other team (developed or not).

If a car is a development/evolution of previously known car than team who made development/evolution indisputably must have had original blueprints/design. If they had them and they must have had them to make development/evolution than that is evolution of design they haven't made themselves and as such illegal.

Percentage of development/evolution on SA07 can't be considered as alibi for claims that it is a completely new car because without having RA106 design/blueprints Aguri wouldn't be able to develop anything.

Another thing. Is there a proof that Aguri made development any of their cars themselves? If they can't prove how they got design of RA106 they've developed why would anyone discard possibility that Honda made that development for them just as it made original pre-developed design?