F you Bernie! from the USA

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
enkidu
enkidu
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Joined: 20 May 2007, 09:26

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Doh.... Look what I started.

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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

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You're cool man. :lol: It's always nice to debate and see the other sides argument.

dumrick
dumrick
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Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 13:36
Location: Portugal

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Ray wrote:Once again, you are saying you are better than me. You arelready called me braindead, now you are saying that Euopeans are better than me and that I've never thought about efficiency. Yeah, you're right. We aren't efficient, and being so is completely foreign to us Americans. Our auto companies aren't striving to meet emmissions goals. If you guys are going to continue to chastise Americans about how we aren't smart enough to understand F1, or how our cars are no match in any form to yours, I'll quit writing replys. I don't call you guys stupid for liking one thing over another, or for your lack of something or anything. (Though I did say you guys were thickheaded, which I'm sorry for)

All I keep hearing in return is that most prefer a well handling car to a stoplight demon, and because we Americans like that kind of car it is inferior to European cars. Opinion is fact apparently. I don't care that your cars handle better, and that doesn't make mine inferior!! They are built for different evironments, stop beating a dead horse.
I'm sorry, Ray. I think you misunderstood me. I was trying to avoid being judgmental in my post and I was never trying to claim to be better than you. I believe our different views emanate from different cultural and social backgrounds and this kind of differences must always be on our minds when having these discussions. Even the efficiency thing has roots on the price that is paid for all kinds of energy in our and in your side of the Atlantic. That concern doesn't come out of enlightenment or better values: it comes from the money that comes out from our pockets for electricity, gas or oil.
And clearly, there's no judgment implicit on the straights vs. curves issue! Curiously enough, I believe that American racing circuits tend to be a lot more twisty and slow than most European ones. But I'm leaving ovals aside, so that's probably the justification: to clearly differentiate speed and handling circuits. Since we have little tradition of ovals, our road circuits are more of a compromise than yours.

Concerning the origin of hydrocarbon supplies and the politics issue, I would rather leave that out. I'm a technician and this is a technical forum, not a scientific or political one. And I'm sure our points of view on that are too far away from each other to provide any sound discussion.

Once again, I beg you to forgive me and forget about my ranting post. We should respect our differences and I believe in evolving as individuals exactly in the respect and understanding for the differences. Forums like this are a golden opportunity to broaden our horizons and understand that there are different views on things and that ours are not necessarily better or worse than anyone else's. Actually, we learn a lot only by understanding WHY people have different opinions from our own.

SZ
SZ
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Joined: 21 May 2007, 11:29

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someone had to post it s2000 stats why, because they read a few car magazine and can repeat stats? there's a few more i could post that'd sway the balance well the other way. but there's no point. if you don't know, take a physics class. no offence. there both performance cars, though i'd not call the s2000 in the same league as a viper. they achieve that performance in different ways. torque is a wonderful thing. an s2000 is a tiresome thing to drive hard. FWIW there are roads with corners all over the world just as there are quarter mile strips (impromptu or otherwise).

people are caving into stereotypes on both side... when you really need to see how the other side lives.

the only reason we look at CO2 is because it's levels are significantly related to fuel consumption. less CO2 means - more than anything (where "anything" includes exhaust gas aftertreatment) - that you're using less fuel. the most CO2 "responsible" manufacturer on vehicles sold last year in europe was fiat. and they make some huge engined, mean mother performance cars... or not.

it principally means "use less fuel", nothing wrong with that.

all this "US" vs "EU" chat there are some clearly dominant attitudes... if they are at all reflected F1 and in your average US viewer, how are you going to convince the average US viewer to tune into F1?

SZ
SZ
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Joined: 21 May 2007, 11:29

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enkidu wrote:Lol whats up with an astra?? As I said its a cheap car and im not braggin. It will out handle any car of its class and beats many above it 0-100mph. Yes its not a BMW M3 but i don't earn that kinda money and I bet unless your on 60k+jobs you wont have a car faster thats newer. My mate even brought an old R33 GTE skyline and it beats that 0-60...

End of the day us english like cars that corner well... The US likes cars that are big and handle like a horse on ice. Australia are somewhere in between....
if you think your astra is the best handling car in it's class and you represent england, then the UK has a poor concept of "handling".

Australia somewhere in between - this would explain why we have a third your population but a far greater number of japanese performance import... right? or why they biggest selling car here is a corolla?
Ray wrote:I think that F1 needs more passing. Period. There are nowhere near enough battles on track. Everyone loves the Dijon fight between Gilles and Rene, but somehow a few think that we have enough today as far as entertaining races. Bullshit. There were more passes in the last few laps just between those two than the whole British GP this past weekend. We need to figure out a way to remedy this. Fuel and tire strategy are important, but I want more. And F1 is supposed to be about the fans. For this single reason alone, I think that's why F1 isn't interesting to most Americans. Simple as that. We love door bangin, tire smoking, sideways fights for the lead. Plus, our drivers have personality. They are just as corporate as F1, but they have flair and personality in interviews. Not the F1 robots I'm used to seeing. If I hear maximise, look at the data, balance is off, or some other lame excuse rather than I ran a shitty race, I'm gonna go crazy. I'm sorry to say, F1 is boring in comparison, and that's why people here don't watch it.
still the best thing said. send it to the FIA.

enkidu
enkidu
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Joined: 20 May 2007, 09:26

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It didn't outhandle cars of its class when new but its since has geometry, coil overs and uprated ARB's... In its class meaning a hatchback. So yes it will now handle better than other manufactures and soon will be better once I have LSD fitted. I'm not comparing it to things like an S2000 or a Lotus its a hatchback meaning you can have kids in the back and shopping in the boot. But its got a powerful engine... Its what we seem to go mad for in england.

We like jap imports here too.... I didn't fancy one myself though as they are too expensive to repair.


As for the carbon issue, there was 2 sides of the problem. We have the highest CO2 in the air in history. This is both due to the expanding population meaning more cars, planes and power stations and the fact that trees are being cut down like no tomorrow.

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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

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LSD?!?! Drugs aren't the answer my friend! :lol:

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f1.redbaron
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Joined: 31 Jul 2005, 23:29

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I received an e-mail from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway yesterday. This is what it said:
Join us today at 3:30 p.m. by logging on to http://www.indianapolismotorspeedway.com and watch as motorsports history is made during a special announcement at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
The only e-mails that I from IMS are about F1, so unless they are confirming that IMS won't be hosting the USGP, this could be some good news for the US fans

enkidu
enkidu
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Joined: 20 May 2007, 09:26

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Ray wrote:LSD?!?! Drugs aren't the answer my friend! :lol:
Hehe but it feels like im flying!! Ok ATB then from quaife

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wazojugs
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Joined: 31 Mar 2006, 18:53
Location: UK

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SZ wrote:an s2000 is a tiresome thing to drive hard
have you owned one you speak like you do....i have excellent car

West
West
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Joined: 07 Jan 2004, 00:42
Location: San Diego, CA

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wazojugs wrote:
SZ wrote:an s2000 is a tiresome thing to drive hard
have you owned one you speak like you do....i have excellent car
I was gon get one but I didn't want the lack of torque... ended up with a 350Z instead. Kinda wish I test drove one tho.
Bring back wider rear wings, V10s, and tobacco advertisements

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pRo
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 09:08

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Definition of thread drift: Going from US F1 GP into comparing japanese sportscars. :lol:
Formula 1, 57, died Thursday, Sept. 13, 2007
Born May 13, 1950, in Silverstone, United Kingdom
Will be held in the hearts of millions forever
Rest In Peace, we will not forget you

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jddh1
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Joined: 29 Jan 2007, 05:30
Location: New York City

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f1.redbaron wrote:I received an e-mail from the Indianapolis Motor Speedway yesterday. This is what it said:
Join us today at 3:30 p.m. by logging on to http://www.indianapolismotorspeedway.com and watch as motorsports history is made during a special announcement at the Indianapolis Motor Speedway.
The only e-mails that I from IMS are about F1, so unless they are confirming that IMS won't be hosting the USGP, this could be some good news for the US fans

Hey redbaron. I'm a Rangers fan. Wait till we bring the CUP back to the East, something you Sens could not do this year.

SZ
SZ
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Joined: 21 May 2007, 11:29

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not to get off topic

wazojugs, yes, i've driven an s2000 at length. it's a very well made car that's a lot of fun in the last 2+kRPM of it's engine speed range. it's like a good civic without a roof for the rest of it - it has about as much torque/kg - and don't ask me why but i don't like the driving position, i feel like i'm sitting on the cg with it.

i'm lucky enough to get to drive a lot of cars. if you wanted to give me your s2000, i would not turn you down, it is a nice car and certainly not the worst in class. if you gave be as much money i would spend it on something else. pushing the car car reminds me of riding a 400cc bike at speed (honda made some very nice ones too) - it's not that it's not fun (it is) but it's just a lot of work and not what i like in a road car.

if it was a plaything i was after i'd sooner be into a second hand elise. the s2000 would not make it into my "garage of any five 'normal' cars" i could have, but it isn't far off either.

mrmr
mrmr
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Joined: 28 Mar 2007, 05:05
Location: California

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Well if F1 does come back to Indy this is what they will find...
http://www.redbullindianapolisgp.com/ne ... ry_id=9470