Mercedes-Benz Works Team (Factory Team(?))

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Possible Mercedes Factory team ?

Possible
5
38%
Impossible
8
62%
 
Total votes : 13

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:49 am

I think Mercedes-Benz is going to consider works team, seriously
BMW make progress about 3 years, now they are winning team

Over 10 years partnership with Mclaren, they won 2 times WDC
WCC is 1 time

When they won the race, they heard 'God save the Queen', although Mercedes is biggist part in Mclaren-Mercedes

but BMW won canada GP and they heard 'Das Lied der Deutschen (Deutschland uber Alles)'

Mercedes won many different category championship
they have a lot of money, high tecnology and good human resource

I think possible we'll see Mercedes Factory F1 team :D
Last edited by hyunterks on Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
My English is not good sorry..
hyunterks
 
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Location: Seoul, South Korea

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:13 am

Your speculation is merely based on opinion and not based on any business logic or rationality. There would need to be far more reasons to break the current partnership than just wanting to hear their national anthem.
zac510
 
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Location: London

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 12:58 pm

Please close this poll!

hyunterks, didn't you watch the race? It's good to watch it and then coming to the forum to post! :twisted:
"I've already altered the deal, pray I don't alter it any further" -Darth Vader to Lando Calrissian. The Empire Strikes Back.
"Progress is not always made by reasonable men." (McLaren Racing).
"We have optimised the lateral optical interface of the building." (Translation: "My factory has a lot of windows.") Ron Dennis.-
sebbe
 
Joined: 17 May 2006
Location: Argentina

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 1:33 pm

hyunterks wrote:I think Mercedes-Benz is going to consider works team, seriously
BMW make progress about 3 years, now they are winning team

Over 10 years partnership with Mclaren, they won 2 times WDC
WCC is 1 time

When they won the race, they heard 'God save the Queen', although Mercedes is biggist part in Mclaren-Mercedes

but BMW won canada GP and they heard 'Das Lied der Deutschen (Deutschland uber Alles)'

Mercedes won many different category championship
they have a lot of money, high tecnology and good human resource

I think possible we'll see Mercedes Factory F1 team :D


Your knowledge of the German national anthem is a bit outdated. by 53 years in fact. "Deutschland über alles" was binned after the the attempt of a certain Austrian went awfully wrong. It is now "Unity and Law and Freedom" that we sing and listen to. :wink:

Regarding Merc I could understand their sentiment if they were indeed a bit depressed to see the billions down the drain. you are quite right that the tally of victories of the McLaren outfit since 1995 is not on par with the rivers of cash they extracted from Merc.

Today there are 1115 people working at Woking, Brixworth and in Stuttgart


an eulogy at the 40 year racing aniversary of McLaren mentioned that mindboggling figure of employees for the F1 team. one could be excused for thinking that Ron Dennis used to deliver better value for money before he stumbled across father chrismas in the person of Jürgen Hubbert in 1994 who had been working with Peter Sauber for more than 5 years. Ron promised him a shortcut to glory and must be seen as the first of the traditional teams that tappede into the riches of a road car manufacturer. Ferrari was owned by FIAT at that time but they were a profit center and not a cash drain. The McLaren Merc partnership changed the face of F1 and started the big money years that ultimately killed Arrows, Prost, Steward, Jordan, Minardi and a bunch of wannabees.

There can be little doubt that ultimately Ron Dennis will step back and sell his minority share of the business to the silver star. some people thought that would happen this year because he let Martin Whitmarsh do the apologies to the world for the spygate desaster. well, perhaps Bernie told him he would be needed as an experienced break away supporter and he delayed it to have some fun? :wink:

BMW have some catching up to do in order to arrive where McLaren is today in terms of performance and resources. I still think they are on a good way to get there and probably with higher efficiency and lower cost.

A second works team is always possible if customer cars are allowed. at the moment it looks like the majority of teams will not go down that road and the FIA seems to accept that for the time being.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:51 pm

Speculation is ok, and sometimes it is the community that adds the credible business rationale to this type of post.

Mercedes, I would think, could easily enter their own team. There is no reason that they couldn't still supply engines to McLaren, and I am sure that there has been enough cross-engineering that Mercedes could build their own winning chassis in 3-4 years. Especially since 2009 brings the dumbing down of the aero packages.

Would they? Not sure. Someone would have to post some compelling evidence to support the idea before I could form an opinion.

Could they? Absolutely!

Does anyone have any information that may support this speculative thread, either way? Quotes? Manufacturing facilities? Human resource?

Chris
Conceptual
 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:19 pm

Merc have a number of tuners who would like nothing better than go into F1. some of these people would certainly be able to put the facilities and resources together. the question really is the rational behind it. McLaren is the factory team.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:38 pm

sebbe wrote:Please close this poll!

hyunterks, didn't you watch the race? It's good to watch it and then coming to the forum to post! :twisted:


Hombre, no seas paranoico! Que a tu amado Team McLaren no le pasará nada. :lol:

I consider McLaren as an actual Mercedes Works Team.
Also have in mind that the last winner is called BMW Sauber but I don´t know what are the functions Peter there.

BTW, MacLaren "only" won 2 WDC and 1 WCC, but has always been "there" and started winning only two years after the start of their partnership. A thing that Peugeot, Honda, Toyota could not achieve from that time till now. Only Renault
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna
Belatti
 
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Argentina

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 4:54 pm

Belatti wrote:
sebbe wrote:Please close this poll!

hyunterks, didn't you watch the race? It's good to watch it and then coming to the forum to post! :twisted:


Hombre, no seas paranoico! Que a tu amado Team McLaren no le pasará nada. :lol:

I consider McLaren as an actual Mercedes Works Team.
Also have in mind that the last winner is called BMW Sauber but I don´t know what are the functions Peter there.

BTW, MacLaren "only" won 2 WDC and 1 WCC, but has always been "there" and started winning only two years after the start of their partnership. A thing that Peugeot, Honda, Toyota could not achieve from that time till now. Only Renault


I think Peter still has 5%, and in business deals/takeovers you can negotiate contracts/terms which do not allow change of name etc...

If Merc wanted even more involvement, I think buying out Mclaren like BAR would be a better option.
bizadfar
 
Joined: 3 Jan 2007

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 5:09 pm

Maybe an AMG Mercedes team would be better? Maybe a co-develop partnership with McLaren Mercedes?

I think that although McLaren has been very competitive against Ferrari in recent years, that Ferrari's biggest advantage is that there are 3 teams running their engines, giving feedback, and possibly leading to "reliability" upgrades that increase BHP.

If the engine freeze is going to still allow those types of developments, I would speculate that the more data the better. With Ferrari, Renault, Toyota, and until recently, Honda offering customer engines that Mercedes will need to have another team with their engines simply to gather more testing data.

We will see. The only other team that could be a likely candidate to run a Merc engine would be ProDrive. If that doesnt materialize, they may opt to sponsor another team like AMG.

But, with no evidence, and the lack of Norbert Haug's presence on these boards, no-one knows for sure what will happen.

Chris
Conceptual
 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:07 pm

With Ultimate Motorsport planning to enter F1, would they use a Merc engine? I think that'd be the most immediate partner they have.

I think an AMG and McLaren F1 fight would be quite good. They've got one going for the next McLaren F1 road-car.
"It could be done manually. It would take quite a while, but it could be done. There is however a much more efficient and accurate way of getting the data. Men with lasers." Wing Commander Andy Green
roost89
 
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Location: Highlands, Scotland

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 8:18 pm

But if they join up with AMG then they have the same situation they have now - sharing the accolades with a 3rd party. So what's the point?

It's true: they are Mercedes, why do they need to join up with anybody? They only need to justify the additional cost against any additional benefits, which can only be in marketing.

The McLaren-Mercedes relationship is very well cemented and not many fans of motorsport don't know about it. Personally I think that money on a big marketing campaign pushing that relationship further would be better value for money than starting a new whole team.
zac510
 
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Location: London

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:08 pm

Conceptual wrote:...If the engine freeze is going to still allow those types of developments, I would speculate that the more data the better. With Ferrari, Renault, Toyota, and until recently, Honda offering customer engines that Mercedes will need to have another team with their engines simply to gather more testing data....


I think the whole thinking is flawed. The strategy agreed between the car makers and the FIA is dead set against allowing further performance developments in engines and aero. both fields are supposed to be frozen. no more power, no more downforce! full stop.

engines and aero are supposed to compete on an efficiency basis and the main force of development is supposed to be regenerative energy and low drag aero. I do not see an alternative to that strategy and the sooner people realise it the better. in the future F1 cars will win races if they have higher efficiency squeezing power from where other cars loose energy. to deploy this strategy other sources of advantage have to be blocked. it sounds a bit harsh but thats what we are going to see.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:30 pm

WhiteBlue wrote:
Conceptual wrote:...If the engine freeze is going to still allow those types of developments, I would speculate that the more data the better. With Ferrari, Renault, Toyota, and until recently, Honda offering customer engines that Mercedes will need to have another team with their engines simply to gather more testing data....


I think the whole thinking is flawed. The strategy agreed between the car makers and the FIA is dead set against allowing further performance developments in engines and aero. both fields are supposed to be frozen. no more power, no more downforce! full stop.

engines and aero are supposed to compete on an efficiency basis and the main force of development is supposed to be regenerative energy and low drag aero. I do not see an alternative to that strategy and the sooner people realise it the better. in the future F1 cars will win races if they have higher efficiency squeezing power from where other cars loose energy. to deploy this strategy other sources of advantage have to be blocked. it sounds a bit harsh but thats what we are going to see.


Maybe you missed the part where Ferrari were granted a few changes to their engine and gained 20+ BHP?

Wait, I'm sure you didn't miss it! You average 11 posts per day on here and have posted more in the last 2 months than anyone else!

Must be that selective comprehension that I have read about... :lol:

Chris
Conceptual
 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:32 pm

Thank you, reply

My post is some stupid, I thought Mercedes got bad result for their investment
but now I know my thought is wrong. also I know I have short of knowledge about F1
#-o

If you want to delete the poll, I'll do it

I try to write more good post next time :D
My English is not good sorry..
hyunterks
 
Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Location: Seoul, South Korea

Post Tue Jun 10, 2008 11:59 pm

Conceptual wrote:
WhiteBlue wrote:
Conceptual wrote:...If the engine freeze is going to still allow those types of developments, I would speculate that the more data the better. With Ferrari, Renault, Toyota, and until recently, Honda offering customer engines that Mercedes will need to have another team with their engines simply to gather more testing data....


I think the whole thinking is flawed. The strategy agreed between the car makers and the FIA is dead set against allowing further performance developments in engines and aero. both fields are supposed to be frozen. no more power, no more downforce! full stop.

engines and aero are supposed to compete on an efficiency basis and the main force of development is supposed to be regenerative energy and low drag aero. I do not see an alternative to that strategy and the sooner people realise it the better. in the future F1 cars will win races if they have higher efficiency squeezing power from where other cars loose energy. to deploy this strategy other sources of advantage have to be blocked. it sounds a bit harsh but thats what we are going to see.


Maybe you missed the part where Ferrari were granted a few changes to their engine and gained 20+ BHP?

Wait, I'm sure you didn't miss it! You average 11 posts per day on here and have posted more in the last 2 months than anyone else!

Must be that selective comprehension that I have read about... :lol:

Chris


you have to bear with me. I'm such a slow learner. and more than 50 years of life experience have worn my brain down to certain basic moves. :wink:

anyway I can still do a good job in pillowing and figuring out what the oppo is up to. to me it looks like McLaren isn't far away from the red cars in terms of power and the whiteblues ain't no slouches either.

I just do not see a sense in pursuing strategies that are destined to frustrate. much cooler to be lean and mean and jump on the new scheme to go faster.

if carbon squeezing is a la vogue you better find a way to make your gains there instead of dying with the dinosaurs. in the end the law will allways win and so it is clever to anticipate the law and learn new tricks.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

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