FIA Ferrari Bias?

[kekekeke]

Just wondering what your thoughts are about this incident between MS and de la Rosa in 2006

[WhiteBlue]

It was certainly a dibatable situation. PDLR late breaked himself into the corner and left Michael no place to go round the corner. I thought both drivers were not doing all right. Pedro should have left some place and Michael should have let him through to be on the safe side. Pedro wasn't fighting for the championship could take a lot more risks there. A messy situation to judge I guess.

[flynfrog]

If I remember right that was the incident that changed the rule that Hamilton broke since Michel was ahead in the corner he did not gain position they have since rewored that I believe

[Rob W]

Hands down Michael should have been penalised for that incident.

...since Michel was ahead in the corner he did not gain position they have since rewored that I believe

Re: this... I think the point is... you're not automatically "ahead at the corner" if your nose is 1cm in front but the other car is completely inside you and already turning. I mean, where are they supposed to go? With Hamilton's move, he technically got his nose ahead but couldn't negotiate the corner so it was false economy.

Driving around the track requires negotiating the track and the other cars which are on it. The perfect line can't always be dictated by whoever has their nose 1cm infront as track position also matters. In the De La Rosa case it was Schumy who prevented a legit pass by driving off the track... i.e. gaining an unfair advantage by running straight. Same logic.

R

[modbaraban]

Hands down Michael should have been penalised for that incident.

I had that though as well, but... there was some contact between the cars and this can change the way we should qualify this.
Either "MS cutting the corner to maintain position (unable to do that otherwise)" or perhaps "MS cutting the corner being physically pushed off the track"
The stewards had every right to give the benefit of the doubt, imho.

[flynfrog]

Hands down Michael should have been penalised for that incident.

...since Michel was ahead in the corner he did not gain position they have since rewored that I believe

Re: this... I think the point is... you're not automatically "ahead at the corner" if your nose is 1cm in front but the other car is completely inside you and already turning. I mean, where are they supposed to go? With Hamilton's move, he technically got his nose ahead but couldn't negotiate the corner so it was false economy.

Driving around the track requires negotiating the track and the other cars which are on it. The perfect line can't always be dictated by whoever has their nose 1cm infront as track position also matters. In the De La Rosa case it was Schumy who prevented a legit pass by driving off the track... i.e. gaining an unfair advantage by running straight. Same logic.

R

Im not saying right or wrong this is what the stewards said

There are a few differences Hamilton drove two deep into a corner from behind the other guy.

Shumi was being passed and got pushed out

but I under stand the point the poster is trying to make

[WhiteBlue]

another perspective

[Conceptual]

Unless the Marshalls were identical at both races, this is a moot point. It has been discussed here in the past that those types of rules are subjectively based (unfortunately) and vary from Marshall to Marshall, Venue to Venue.

What ever the Marshalls decided at each race in each instance is the right answer, regardless of how similar the instances may seem.

I am all for having a dedicated group of Marshalls travel to every race and consistantly enforce the rules and regulations, as well as issue punishments that are in line with the infraction.

I don't necessarily disagree that the incidents are almost identical, but I am not in the position to make the decision, either.

So, the point is moot.

Chris

[enkidu]

Totally totally dont agree with some of your comments there... The Mclaren had the racing line and the Ferrari could have made that corner if he had slowed down instead he used the runoff to stay infront.

Hamilton was actually in front of the other driver but didn't make the next corner. Totally different in my mind.

[Rob W]

I had that though as well, but... there was some contact between the cars and this can change the way we should qualify this.
Either [i]"MS cutting the corner to maintain position..

For sure... I can see that point as well. One thing which is hard to factor out of both situations is that the person on the inside of the corner is handcuffed. When someone is outside you like that: If you lift - you cause an incident; if you brake - you cause an incident; if you modify your turn - you likely hit the other car anyway... So it begs to ask, the inside car has general rights for pretty practical reasons.

Likewise, I don't buy the "was ahead" in every case.. if you take the cars position relative to the corner - i.e. where the cars have to go next - then sometimes the inside car, which could be 1m behind, is actually still closer to the destination point - the corner - by virtue track position.

This is where it gets grey I admit, but in the DLR/Schumy case De La Rosa was level or ahead in the corner but held the inside - either Michael did or didn't see him and squeezed him or De La Rosa simply couldn't hold the line and nudged Michael.

In Hamilton's case: ditto - inside guy could negotiate the corner safely. Why not Hamilton? He wasn't pushed out - he was never far enough ahead in the first place to take a line around the corner which he could stay on the track with.

R

[DaveKillens]

Gotta go with a lot of "IF"'s here. If the Schumacher incident and the Hamilton incident had occured at the same day on the same track, then to me it's obvious Michael gained an advantage by driving through the chicane. So did Hamilton. At the time, Schumacher was not penalized or the stewards had investigated. The only diference was that in that specific race, Michael retired a few laps earlier.
Hey, the truth is that Michael did whatever it took to succeed, even at the expense of the rule book. Sometimes he got away with it, sometimes not. But historians will look back at the Schumacher era and not only count the multiple records he attained, but also the long string of rules breaking and violations of Michael and those assiciated with him. That's just the way it is folks, Formula One is as political as it gets, and with it lots of dirty deals and favoritism. We're seen it in the past, we are seeing it today, and we will see it in the future.

[bazanaius]

off topic slightly, but what I get from whiteblue#s video is how much later MS is braking than pdlr..