Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
Richard
Moderator
Joined: Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:41 pm
Location: UK

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by Richard » Tue Oct 04, 2011 1:25 pm

Well spotted. OK so they can't charge while idling.

Anyway, the work done by KERS to propel the car down the pit lane will be the same regardless of whether the actual pit stop lasts for 5 seconds or 50 seconds.

Another question is what happens if there is a KERS malfunction? They'll have a fully functioning engine, but not allowed to use the pit lane, hence no stop, hence race over?

Perhaps the stewards will see the KERS malfunctioning on the telemetry and allow them to use the engine in the pit lane? Probably with a ban on KERS for the next 2 laps for that car to avoid any temptation for cheating!

beelsebob
182
User avatar
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:49 pm
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by beelsebob » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:09 pm

richard_leeds wrote:Well spotted. OK so they can't charge while idling.

Anyway, the work done by KERS to propel the car down the pit lane will be the same regardless of whether the actual pit stop lasts for 5 seconds or 50 seconds.

Another question is what happens if there is a KERS malfunction? They'll have a fully functioning engine, but not allowed to use the pit lane, hence no stop, hence race over?

Perhaps the stewards will see the KERS malfunctioning on the telemetry and allow them to use the engine in the pit lane? Probably with a ban on KERS for the next 2 laps for that car to avoid any temptation for cheating!
My guess is that a KERS failure will simply become as fatal as an engine failure.

dren
163
User avatar
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:14 pm

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by dren » Tue Oct 04, 2011 5:28 pm

That's my guess as well beelsebob.
Honda!

MIKEY_!
3
User avatar
Joined: Sun Jul 10, 2011 2:07 am

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by MIKEY_! » Wed Oct 05, 2011 6:15 am

Say someone uses all their KERS in sector 3 and then tears the FW off near the end of the lap. They got too little KERS to complete pit stop. Race over???

raymondu999
138
User avatar
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by raymondu999 » Wed Oct 05, 2011 8:20 am

I think they'd be safe actually. KERS capacity in the battery is probably a lot more than the 6.6s allowed; especially for double deploying purposes. I wonder if it will force Red Bulls to not use KERS on inlaps.

Also usually now I think they can immediately use KERS on out laps. I remember in Suzuka 2009 Kovslainen and Fisico were side by side on pit exit, but Kovy out-KERSed Fisico way before turn 1
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

dren
163
User avatar
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:14 pm

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by dren » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:29 pm

The KERS system can hold 5MJ of energy. It can only deploy 4MJ of energy at a max of 120kW per lap (160hp extra for 33 seconds). It can only recover 2MJ of energy per lap.

I wonder if the parade lap before the race will be able to charge the batteries fully. The regs state only 2MJ per lap charge.
Honda!

JohnsonsEvilTwin
0
User avatar
Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2010 10:51 am
Location: SU 419113

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by JohnsonsEvilTwin » Wed Oct 05, 2011 12:39 pm

Dren

This leaves open another question mark.

For example, can a team choose to charge KERS during qualy 3 having done its flying lap then follows up with 2 "cool down laps" up to the permissable amount of 4MJ allowed for 1 lap? Then once in parc ferme the car retains its charge for the race?
More could have been done.
David Purley

dren
163
User avatar
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:14 pm

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by dren » Wed Oct 05, 2011 4:24 pm

I need to reread it. I don't think they would want the cars to retain their energy when parked or turned off. Also, I'm curious how qualifying will work with charging limits. I assume it will be the same. I need to dig that up too.
Honda!

ForMuLaOne
6
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2011 1:01 am

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by ForMuLaOne » Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:51 pm

Are perforated surfaces allowed? Why dont they suck off the boundary layer with a doubled bodywork (one solid layer, one perforated above) connected to the diffusor... would love to see this.

ESPImperium
90
User avatar
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2008 11:08 pm
Location: Glasgow, Scotland

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by ESPImperium » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:15 pm

What id like to see is the KERS regs being opened up alot, even if we were to put 10Kg extra in batteries on the cars and raise the weight to 650Kg id be happy if the drivers could get up to 3 times more time avalable to them, say 20seconds a lap but increase the power from 80Hp to 100hp.

However im not sure how you can increase the ammount of charge, im sure there is something at the Motor Generator Unit that is limiting the charge, however if HERS was also allowed toi charge the batteries, put a HERS unit on the exhaust banannas and im sure youd get the desired charge.

beelsebob
182
User avatar
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:49 pm
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by beelsebob » Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:18 pm

ESPImperium wrote:What id like to see is the KERS regs being opened up alot, even if we were to put 10Kg extra in batteries on the cars and raise the weight to 650Kg id be happy if the drivers could get up to 3 times more time avalable to them, say 20seconds a lap but increase the power from 80Hp to 100hp.

However im not sure how you can increase the ammount of charge, im sure there is something at the Motor Generator Unit that is limiting the charge, however if HERS was also allowed toi charge the batteries, put a HERS unit on the exhaust banannas and im sure youd get the desired charge.
Personally, I'd like to simply see them drop regulation on how long you're allowed to use KERS for. Let the best KERS win.

volarchico
0
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 6:27 am

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by volarchico » Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:51 pm

And while they're at it, drop engine regulations too. Bring on the HP...

beelsebob
182
User avatar
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:49 pm
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by beelsebob » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:11 pm

volarchico wrote:And while they're at it, drop engine regulations too. Bring on the HP...
I didn't say drop regulation on how powerful the KERS is.

raymondu999
138
User avatar
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 6:31 am

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by raymondu999 » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:13 pm

You mean allow the same output wattage; but for unrestricted amounts of time?
失败者找理由,成功者找方法

beelsebob
182
User avatar
Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 2:49 pm
Location: Cupertino, California

Re: Technical Regulations for 2009-2015

Post by beelsebob » Tue Oct 11, 2011 8:24 pm

raymondu999 wrote:You mean allow the same output wattage; but for unrestricted amounts of time?
Exactly, if you can generate more from breaking, stably, you can use it.