2016 for Hungaroring WTF?

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Post Sun Aug 03, 2008 8:16 pm

What will it take to stop coming to this one line sand box? I guess the city is nice, nicer than Brazil, but the circuit is crap. Monaco can get away with being on the calendar because of the glamor and its history but this dump only offers processions. There must be some money changing hands because it offers zero racing spectacle. Maybe Bernie has a Hungarian dominatrix in his closet?

This track sucks massively.
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1
gcdugas
 
Joined: 19 Sep 2006

Post Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:10 pm

Just like you said... it must be the venue itself, not the race. I thought Monaco was cool the first time I watched F1, but after a few years, the race... never mind, there is no race.

Any racetrack can become a great one... just put in some crashes or demoralizing engine failures, or first-time winners. Mix them all in a pot of rainfall.
Bring back wider rear wings, V10s, and tobacco advertisements
West
 
Joined: 6 Jan 2004
Location: San Diego, CA

Post Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:37 pm

u right ppl... this track has nothing in it
at least for the sake of racing it has nothing ... it's pointless to host a race here
and they want to improve racing and overtaking. with a track like this overtaking will never happen
chasefreak
 
Joined: 28 Feb 2007
Location: India

Post Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:44 pm

Well the location is probably very interesting as the venue always attracts a lot of fans from Finnland and now apparently also from Poland.

The track itself is indeed not much fun to watch, but it's challenging and did improve slightly with the changes of 2 years ago. I would however like very much to see this track be altered by a little more straight line, possibly be removing one of the two chicanes and relocating some of the outer corners of the track.
Steven
 
Joined: 19 Aug 2002
Location: Belgium

Post Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:52 pm

I understand they will build a spnaking new track at the Balaton lake close to the internatinal airport there. It will be different venue and track then.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:20 pm

Our track designer expert Ciro will tell us if the terrain would let us change the layout to improve racing in this kart-track, like it is showed here (in red):

Image
"You need great passion, because everything you do with great pleasure, you do well." -Juan Manuel Fangio

"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication and competence." -Ayrton Senna
Belatti
 
Joined: 10 Jul 2007
Location: Argentina

Post Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:32 am

WhiteBlue wrote:I understand they will build a spnaking new track at the Balaton lake close to the internatinal airport there. It will be different venue and track then.



In 2017? uggh
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1
gcdugas
 
Joined: 19 Sep 2006

Post Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:38 pm

I was surprised to see that date too. But surely they need an alternative for the eastern Europe before getting rid of Hungaroring. I just though they won't need that much time to find it. Bernie keeps visiting Russia to negotiate this. In any case the new track will most probably be an ultra modern tilkedrome, that may appear boring :? Unless of course it'll be as good as Istanbul Park.
modbaraban
 
Joined: 5 Apr 2007
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Post Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:03 pm

The track and sometimes the race can be horrible... but in this decade we saw the first wins of Alonso, Button, and now Kovalainen. The 2006 race also brought interesting results.
Bring back wider rear wings, V10s, and tobacco advertisements
West
 
Joined: 6 Jan 2004
Location: San Diego, CA

Post Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:16 pm

modbaraban wrote:I was surprised to see that date too. But surely they need an alternative for the eastern Europe before getting rid of Hungaroring. I just though they won't need that much time to find it. Bernie keeps visiting Russia to negotiate this. In any case the new track will most probably be an ultra modern tilkedrome, that may appear boring :? Unless of course it'll be as good as Istanbul Park.


It's surely only a matter of time until we see a race in Russia. I'd imagine they'd have to build the track? I don't have a great knowledge of tracks in Russia they could use.
gabsy
 
Joined: 20 Mar 2008

Post Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:51 pm

Belatti wrote:Our track designer expert Ciro will tell us if the terrain would let us change the layout to improve racing in this kart-track, like it is showed here (in red):

Image


Wouldn't that make it more like the Tilke-dromes that everyone complains about?
zac510
 
Joined: 24 Jan 2006
Location: London

Post Mon Aug 04, 2008 6:56 pm

Belatti wrote:Our track designer expert Ciro will tell us if the terrain would let us change the layout to improve racing in this kart-track, like it is showed here (in red):

Image

I've thought a bit further on your improved corners, and here's what I would do to improve overtaking and average speed. I would also add a little bit of track somewhere as 4.3km is really short. I didn't add it as I want to keep it realistic and "cheap":
Image
A little explanation:
Turn2: As you can see, I'd make the entrance sharper so that there's a little more braking but the throttle can be down earlier on. Together with the removal of turn 4 you'd get a longer "straight" and an interesting corner at the end (a corner I particularly like, so I didn't change it).
Turn 6: the chicane changed to a sharp corner that is further down the track and which also forms the start of a curvy section of the track.
Turn 11 to 13 are particularly troublesome for this circuit as I think it greatly hampers overtaking at the end of the straigtht. I therefore made the corners slightly slower so that the following car isn't penalised as much.

Note that I have taken into account runoff zones and tried to keep changes as small as possible. Any thoughts?
Steven
 
Joined: 19 Aug 2002
Location: Belgium

Post Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:29 pm

I'd leave turn 4 as it is. It's quite fun to drive 'cos you can't see the apex till you hit it.

T10 is the best to drive, even though it doesn't look like that on the map. With the faster T11 it'll be even better. :wink:
modbaraban
 
Joined: 5 Apr 2007
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Post Mon Aug 04, 2008 10:26 pm

Tomba wrote:Image
A little explanation:
Turn2: As you can see, I'd make the entrance sharper so that there's a little more braking but the throttle can be down earlier on. Together with the removal of turn 4 you'd get a longer "straight" and an interesting corner at the end (a corner I particularly like, so I didn't change it).
Turn 6: the chicane changed to a sharp corner that is further down the track and which also forms the start of a curvy section of the track.
Turn 11 to 13 are particularly troublesome for this circuit as I think it greatly hampers overtaking at the end of the straigtht. I therefore made the corners slightly slower so that the following car isn't penalised as much.

Note that I have taken into account runoff zones and tried to keep changes as small as possible. Any thoughts?


I like the turn 4 removal since in theory it should aid passing. But things often don't work out in reality as theory would dictate. Just how much passing takes place into turn 1? "In theory" I would think that a long straight after a very tight corner would be best since the aero loss of downforce is minimal at slow speeds. This allows closer following out of the corner leading to the straight so the car behind doesn't lose his front end to dirty air. Then he can slingshot down the straight and get past a slower car. This "theory" works at Canada turn 12 or Malaysia turn 1 both which provide good passing. So I would modify the last corner before the main straight in your little image in the exact opposite way so that the entry is a greater radius than the exit. Place the tight part just before the straight for the reasons I just stated.

Yesterday Kimi was stuck for many laps behind Alonso and Jarno was stuck behind Webber. Both Kimi and Jarno were able to go much quicker once they got past. Kimi set fast lap once Fernando was out of the way. This is a big problem and F1 must address it. Does anyone remember the embarrassing incident at Monaco 2001 when DC was over 3 sec faster but got stuck behind Bernoldi until lap 44? How can anyone call that racing? You might as well place them all on train tracks and only allow "passing" by the lottery of pit stops. It is no more racing that trains can race. Let's not fool ourselves. It shouldn't take more than one lap to pass anyone. If you can't pass anywhere in a whole lap then you might as well be on rails. There is no way that any F1 fan can ever argue that the racing is better than Moto-GP for example. Let's stop lying to ourselves and cease from calling it "racing". It is a procession plain and simple. It sucks and F1 should go elsewhere.

But why not just go elsewhere in Hungary and start over with something like Istanbul and have the bonus of a few elevation changes. I think this track is beyond hope. It is too tight and "go-cartish". If there are arguments for a round in eastern Europe for the Poles and Finns etc., then those arguments do not mean that it has to be the Hungaroring. Build something or find a better existing track. Why renew their deal until 2016? This has been known as a sh!t circuit for ages. If Bernie can dump Silverstone (which allows passing) over matters secondary to the actual racing spectacle, then surely he could dump this track because of its lack of passing.

I repeat a thousand times, this is a sh!t track.
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1
gcdugas
 
Joined: 19 Sep 2006

Post Mon Aug 04, 2008 11:20 pm

It seems that Moto-GP aims higher than F1. They will build a new circuit in Hungary. Why can't FOM join with these guys are work something out together? We need not wait until 2016. This will be done before the current 2011 contract with Hungaroring expires. The 2012-2016 five year extension is unnecessary. Click here
Innovation over refinement is the prefered path to performance. -- Get rid of the dopey regs in F1
gcdugas
 
Joined: 19 Sep 2006

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