No Honda money for Brawn GP

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Post Mon May 04, 2009 3:11 am

I can understand this, although it was promised by Bernie as a way to keep the team in the championship this season.

My question is, now that the liar went back on his word, does Honda have a right to demand the money for themselves? I mean, do they need to still be in the championship to get the TV money that is owed for the seasons that they WERE in the Championship?

It is my hope that Honda request this money, and get denied, and Bernie and the CVC get buried in court and bankrupted.

I know that I shouldnt wish such ill will on a person, but man, do I hate people that lie to get what they want (to help them fulfill their contract obligations) and then turn around and reneg on their promise.

It is getting harder and harder to maintain respect for F1 as the clowns that run the circus continue to steal, rape and plunder the fans, the competitors, the tracks, and in some cases, entire Governments.

Bernie in an economic terrorist, and needs to be treated as such!
Conceptual
 
Joined: 15 Nov 2007

Post Mon May 04, 2009 3:51 am

Didn't Brawn get the very last pit garage because they were technically a new team?

I think the writing was on the wall then; precedent was established that they were being treated as a new team, wasn't it?

I can understand an issue if it was promised - but I'd be curious to know the exact circumstances and stipulations behind that promise.

Do you work for Brawn or Honda by any chance? It would appear that Bernie's taken some money right out of your pocket.
The FOZ
 
Joined: 7 Feb 2008
Location: Winterpeg, Canada

Post Mon May 04, 2009 5:58 am

I think MrM was very happy to accommodate Flavio's request, only to pocket the money for himself. :lol:
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Mon May 04, 2009 6:08 am

It's an interesting situation as its not only Honda that havent been paid it's all teams that are owed money - the amount totals $900 mil over the 2008/09 seasons and sits in CVC's bank. Ecclestone has said that as there has been no concorde agreement in place since 2007 he's not bound to pay that income to any team and more specifically Honda withdrew and so broke an agreement with FOM to remain in the series until 2012. I think he's offered the carrot to the other teams that if a new concorde agreement can be agreed and signed they will receive the unpaid monies - then he turns around straight after that and says he will not be agreeing to pay (the negotiated 50% of income to teams) and as Mosley is bringing in a cost capped formula Ecclestone says the teams dont need that much share of the income stream so he will most likely reduce it down to possibly 25% - so who knows what will happen - Ive been told if Ecclestone says he will do such & such expect him to near always do the opposite......can you imagine what this guy was like when he started out selling used motorcycles - I wouldnt have bought one off him :lol:
The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where thieves and pimps run free and good men die like dogs - there's also the negative side' - Hunter S Thompson
Chaparral
 
Joined: 1 May 2008
Location: New England District NSW Australia

Post Mon May 04, 2009 6:18 am

Good to see you here Chap, obviously something must have happened? :lol:

You are correct as usual, why I have this funny feeling more than one manufacturer already had enough of this nonsense, while it is important for MrE to make it clear that it comes with a cost to leave.

The 900 million are clearly held as some sort of collateral or blackmail-tool.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Mon May 04, 2009 6:48 am

It would appear as if this rumored 900 mil figure would be inaccurate. At least Williams do not have money withheld. They even got an advance if you believe published figures.

I would also seriously doubt that Ferrari would tolerate FOM owing them money and Mateschitz also hasn't gone where he is in business by being charitable with business partners.

If Bernie is holding money back it is most likely related to parties that have not fully entered into contract with him. He has often pointed out that the full price money is only due if you have a 5 year contract.

Regarding the Brawn case Honda are certainly in breach of contract with at least the FIA because they committed to race under their name in the 2010 season. They may have had committments with Bernie as well. The FIA specifically pointed out that Brawn is a new team and are not filling Honda's committment to race. While it would be a nice guesture for Bernie to pay Brawn the Honda money I would doubt that his lawyers would advise him to do so.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Mon May 04, 2009 8:31 am

Conceptual wrote:It is getting harder and harder to maintain respect for F1 as the clowns that run the circus continue to steal, rape and plunder the fans, the competitors, the tracks, and in some cases, entire Governments.

Bernie in an economic terrorist, and needs to be treated as such!


Welcome to the world: this is how EVERYTHING operates, not only these days but since a long long time ago. We are a nasty bunch us earthlings.

Chaparral wrote:It's an interesting situation as its not only Honda that havent been paid it's all teams that are owed money - the amount totals $900 mil over the 2008/09 seasons and sits in CVC's bank.


If you ever lived or worked in the UK, or even if you had a single transaction with a Bank around here, you would find out that a large amount of profit is made simply by delaying due payments as long as possible and capitalizing on the interest. Unless of course YOU are the one who has to pay, in which case they kindly inform you of a due date, past which YOU will be charged with the extra interest. Or taken to court.

WhiteBlue wrote:While it would be a nice guesture for Bernie to pay Brawn the Honda money I would doubt that his lawyers would advise him to do so.


:lol: :lol: :lol: =D>
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft
andartop
 
Joined: 8 Jun 2008
Location: London, UK

Post Mon May 04, 2009 9:31 am

This forum confuses me at times, while most people here seems to share the distaste for the way F1 is run nowadays, others sometimes gives the impression they serve and cater at the EvilTwins dinnertable?

But I guess that's the charm with it, right chap?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Mon May 04, 2009 2:03 pm

Diversity is the salt in the internet soup. I have my problems in understanding why some people cannot enjoy the freedom of unrestricted exchange of information and opinion.

Some of the stuff I read here I find outright hilarious and some of the guys here need a berth as wide as a naval carrier, but hey, who cares?
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best .............................. organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
WhiteBlue
 
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Location: WhiteBlue Country

Post Mon May 04, 2009 4:35 pm

So what happened to Jordan's money? Did Midland get it? Did Spyker get Midland's? Will FIF1 get Spyker's? Seems that should be the precedent here.
Heaven: Where the cooks are French, the police are British, the lovers are Greek, the mechanics are German, and it is all organized by the Swiss.

Hell: Where the cooks are British, the police are German, the lovers are Swiss, the mechanics are French, and it is all organized by the Greeks.
Ted68
 
Joined: 20 Mar 2006
Location: Osceola, PA, USA

Post Mon May 04, 2009 5:35 pm

Agreed it seems a bit semantic, but possibly it was in Honda's official message to "withdraw" from F1?
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Mon May 04, 2009 6:41 pm

xpensive wrote:This forum confuses me at times, while most people here seems to share the distaste for the way F1 is run nowadays, others sometimes gives the impression they serve and cater at the EvilTwins dinnertable?


The Forum was the public space in the middle of a Roman city.

A gathering place of great social significance, it was often the scene of diverse activities, including political discussions, meetings, et cetera.

So, one would have to expect that not everybody participating in a forum will agree on everything. That is the whole point of having a discussion.

I have no idea whether anybody considers that I serve and cater the Evil Twins, but this is really a different discussion.

I just can't see why if that was the case it would be confusing to anyone!
The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. H.P.Lovecraft
andartop
 
Joined: 8 Jun 2008
Location: London, UK

Post Mon May 04, 2009 8:02 pm

Sorry about that one top, agreed said posting was not made during my finest hour at F1Technical.
Neither aimed at yourself though.
"I spent most of my money on wine and women...I wasted the rest"
xpensive
 
Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Location: Somewhere in Scandinavia

Post Mon May 04, 2009 11:44 pm

We're not all mad about the Evil Twins.
Personally I'm not too happy about the shady dealings they do, but it does seem to keep an extremely entertaining show going. So not brill, but nothing desperately wrong.
Bernie and max are smart guys, they know F1 is to make money by being as entertaining as possible. If that means screwing the teams over once in a while, so what? The teams wouldn't exist were it not for the Eviltwins expansion of F1 into a major global brand.
As long as they don't take the show aspects too far (ie like wrestling) and what we see is good, honest competition, I'm gonna keep lapping it up.
TheMinister
 
Joined: 19 Feb 2008

Post Mon May 04, 2009 11:49 pm

I read somewhere that because Honda left, they loose the money. BGP entered as a new team, so they don't have right to any money. However, FOTA agreed that BGP should get the TV money for 2009, tho as a new team they shouldn't. Not now Flav proposed that the non-DDD 7 should get the TV money instead, to cover the cost for re-designing their cars :D
vall
 
Joined: 4 Nov 2008

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