Mercedes 'to buy stake in Brawn GP'

[JamesS]

Its flashed up on BBC News web site, anyone know any other details?

[Sawtooth-spike]

All i could find was what was on the BBC news website.

I was interesting that the rules next year allow team to provide engine to 3 teams. (this year they could do 2, but if they had permission they could do more). So that could leave redbull with the Botch job that is a renault engine again! unless they let them supply 4 teams.

I can see anybody letting them supply 4 teams on the grid though, when you look at the results those teams have had this year.

[Vasco]

There is an article on autosport:

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/78399

Interesting to see Mercedes increase their exposure in F1 while BMW are pulling out.

[Confused_Andy]

Mercedes are to F1 like Ferrari is, Mercedes would die without F1 as publicity.

And this can only be good news for Brawn.

[xpensive]

Mercedes would die without F1 as publicity.

That statement is perhaps slighly out of perspective, when the company did quite nicely before 1993 as well.

[deus1066]

I have to echo that statement, I think Mercedes/Daimler would still be making most of the £billion or so they do at the moment even without their F1 involvement. Especially if the new SLS turns out well.

Having said that though, I'm pleased they're increasing their involvement with possibly 4 teams (Mclaren, Force India and probably Brawn GP and Red Bull) using their engines next year. Especially considering BMW have left, and I'm sure Renault and Toyota are pretty close to leaving too.

However, with up to 4 of the possible 13 teams next year being Mercedes powered and the tight regulations, I think we're missing out on some more engine competition.

[Super racing]

are they buying into the team so that they can supply more teams? What are the rules concerning supplying engines to teams?
Last year they could only supply the manufacturer team and 1 other team, Merc got special dispensation to supply BGP.... I've read it written that those limitations have since been dropped, but maybe they are buying into the team so that BGP would be considered a manufacturer team and so then they can also supply RBR... just a thought

[gibells]

That's just what I was thinking. Its a good way of getting around the engine supplier rule (which is surely doomed based on the current automotive economy). It does seem odd though, and it does stack up with the conspiracy theorist's view that they would disinvest out of McLaren and re-invest into Brawn (at a lower investment cost). I'm sure there is a long line of Middle Eastern investors waiting to buy into Macca, so there will be no problem with Merc off-loading at least a portion of their 40% stake.

I read an interesting point in a Car Magazine the other day. They reckon that the reason the F1 road car was so short lived has to do with the fact that it was powered by a BMW motor at the time Mercedes began their partnership with McLaren. Merc quietly told them to complete their production run of the F1 and design and develop a series of Merc powered McLarens. It does beg the question what will power the new P11? Will it be an in-house (McLaren) engine, or will it be an out-and-out Merc? and is this the end of the McLaren Mercedes F1 partnership?

[xpensive]

If the future of F1 is 40 MEUR teams, perhaps the Brawn operation is a better option than the McLaren leviathan.

Mercedes simply hedging their bets for the future of F1?

[WhiteBlue]

It was very humiliating for Merc and Nobby to see their works team obliterated in the first half season. It always sounded like a lame apology when Nobby pointed out that the customer team did win. Even a moderate investment as a share holder will give Mercedes much more credibility for Brawn GP points. They would be considered a works team as well. So from a PR point of view it is a shrewd move. In terms of cash flow it may even be neutral because subsidy to McLaren might be reshaped according to their points haul and of cause Brawn GP's point haul.

There is also the option to buy Nico Rosberg for Brawn if he hesitates to drive as Hamilton's team mate. It is believed that Nobby and Nico are all in agreement that Nico will be a Merc driver next year. This could be the option to make a wider impact. Having two stars at different teams will make things easier.

[axle]

It was very humiliating for Merc and Nobby to see their works team obliterated in the first half season. It always sounded like a lame apology when Nobby pointed out that the customer team did win. Even a moderate investment as a share holder will give Mercedes much more credibility for Brawn GP points. They would be considered a works team as well. So from a PR point of view it is a shrewd move. In terms of cash flow it may even be neutral because subsidy to McLaren might be reshaped according to their points haul and of cause Brawn GP's point haul.

There is also the option to buy Nico Rosberg for Brawn if he hesitates to drive as Hamilton's team mate. It is believed that Nobby and Nico are all in agreement that Nico will be a Merc driver next year. This could be the option to make a wider impact. Having two stars at different teams will make things easier.

Or they could give Williams Merc engines (instead of RedBull) and leave him there As there is no betting whether Brawn can maintain their position next year!

Yes I know it's highly speculative - I'm still dreaming of Nico and Nico @ Williams next year with Merc engines and Flybrid KERS...

[Pup]

I'm not sure this should be too surprising - after all, Mercedes has been looking for a second team for some time now. Neither Direxiv nor Prodrive worked out for them, but perhaps at the end of the day that will be to their advantage, since Brawn is probably a better package, and likely for less money than they would have spent supporting either of the other two.

So it gives them a guaranteed customer for their engines, a bit more pull within FOTA and the sport as a whole, someplace to put Di Resta, and a stick to poke McLaren with whenever the need arises.

And didn't McLaren make some overtures to Ross after he left Ferrari? I seem to remember reading something about that.

[Giblet]

Mercedes said at the beginning of the year they were not going to take advantage of the engine deal and slap Mercedes badges all over the car. They didn't want to appear opportunistic.

I wonder, if they close a deal with Brawn before the year is out, will the potential championship winning car have a big Silver Arrows at season end?

[Pup]

You'd think so. It seems a bit dumb not to have a giant silver star on the engine cover at the moment, doesn't it?

One other thing to consider is that McLaren and Mercedes will soon be competitors of a sort, since one of the road cars McLaren plans to produce is reportedly in the $100k range. That will compete not only with the announced target, the 911, but also with some of Merc's offerings.

[Giblet]

You'd think so. It seems a bit dumb not to have a giant silver star on the engine cover at the moment, doesn't it?

One other thing to consider is that McLaren and Mercedes will soon be competitors of a sort, since one of the road cars McLaren plans to produce is reportedly in the $100k range. That will compete not only with the announced target, the 911, but also with some of Merc's offerings.

I don't know if that will matter. Mclaren's supercar has a BMW engine

Mercedes is more of a luxury brand, with performance being part and parcel to all their vehicles. Mercedes and Ron Dennis (we never hear that name anymore, sad) would be smart to continue their relationship in the new Mclaren Road Car startup. The pedigree of Mercedes engines in the Mclaren would be good for Mclaren's image, and good for Mercedes pocketbook.

I wonder how their lines will overlap?