No refueling, pit strategies & pace car implications

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Astro1
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No refueling, pit strategies & pace car implications

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Strategies will be determined by tyres and more specifically by wear and grip level.

A car that's more aggressive will chew more than a car that isn't so strategies will focus on maximizing tyre usage.

One has to consider that there will be some excitement in that the teams' choice to stop will be determined by the condition of the current set of tyres.

One team may choose to run softs to gain a speed advantage before pitting for a new set, while another may try to make their's last longer and wait out for the the pit stops.

The problems will come from safety cars that should you be the first to stop for a fresh set of tyres, you will have the optimal pace once the restart occurs and those in front will have to stop or gamble loosing all grip. Depending on when it happens, you may even choose to slow your pace and not stop for a set at all after your first initial stop.

It should be at least somewhat interesting.

Any ideas on other possibilities and or implications of the rule?

gibells
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Joined: 08 Apr 2009, 16:23
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Re: No Refueling Pit Stratrgies Tactics & Pace car implications.

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I understand that the development of tyres has come along a huge amount in recent years. In order the spice up the show I can see the organisers going for heavily compromised tyres in order to spice up the racing. Or putting out a pace car at the slightest sign of a waved yellow. Or making the gap between the 2 compounds as different as you could get it. Otherwise its going to be a proper bore fest.

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Fil
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Joined: 15 Jan 2007, 14:54
Location: Melbourne, Aus.

Re: No Refueling Pit Stratrgies Tactics & Pace car implications.

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gibells wrote:I understand that the development of tyres has come along a huge amount in recent years.
really?
i'd suggest the opposite. since Michelin left, Bridgestone has done very little in development.. and in fact has slowed the pace of the tyres.


in terms of strategy, quicker pitstops will help, but 2-stoppers utilising a short stint on Options will surely be the continuing norm.
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Astro1
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Re: No Refueling Pit Stratrgies Tactics & Pace car implications.

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One thing is certain, is that eliminating refueling, is ONE MORE unknown off of the FIA uncertainty list giving them that much more control over the outcome of the races.

I'm not saying that they are orchestrating outcomes, but it certainly makes it that much easier to do so should they wish to.

Our favorite driver is struggling but he just stopped for fresh tyres ohh wait! There's some debris on track. Wheres that safety car? :lol:

Not that it would, but it could.

gibells
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Joined: 08 Apr 2009, 16:23
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Re: No Refueling Pit Stratrgies Tactics & Pace car implications.

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Fil wrote:
gibells wrote:I understand that the development of tyres has come along a huge amount in recent years.
really?
i'd suggest the opposite. since Michelin left, Bridgestone has done very little in development.. and in fact has slowed the pace of the tyres.
Yeah, Ok. I get your point. Thats what a lack of competition does for development. I was (badly) trying to point out that one set of good tyres (appropriate for the conditions) these days would have no problem lasting the entire race without requiring a change [case in point- watch some races in the 80s where a new set of tyres was worth about 4 seconds a lap].

They are going to have to deliberately bring inappropriate tyres to a race just to make it interesting.

ESPImperium
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Re: No Refueling Pit Stratrgies Tactics & Pace car implications.

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I think that the tyres will be like this for 2010:

Start with the options, Stop arround lap 15 (average track length) for primes, 22 laps later stop for your second set of primes and go for the remainder 20ish laps on them.

Altho some tracks will have to be 3 stoppers i think, Hungaroring and Interlagos spring to mind. Posibly Bahrain and Malaysia as well. Ones where the key to a good lap time is good cornering on tight tracks and high corner speeds on more open modren tracks.

But the guys that can make their tires last one lap longer than the guy in front will win. Id expect that cars that have the problem that the Brawns have this year in getting heat into their tyres could be the winners, as they could start from say 14th and go 90% into a race on the primes, pit for options and then win that way.

Altho, id like to see the stupid tyre rule ditched and allow each driver 7 sets of the 2 dry types of tyres for the weekend and then 4 or 5 sets of wets and inters for the weekend also. Allow a team to come thrugh from the back without stopping managing their tyres really well, altho could be 1.5 seconds off the pace, win. That would improve the spectacle, meaning that anyone can and could win.

Richard
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Joined: 15 Apr 2009, 14:41
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Re: No Refueling Pit Stratrgies Tactics & Pace car implications.

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ESPImperium wrote:Allow a team to come through from the back without stopping managing their tyres really well, although could be 1.5 seconds off the pace, win. That would improve the spectacle, meaning that anyone can and could win.
The teams will have hundreds of tortoise/hare scenarios running the simulators to calculate the optimum distances. That will then inform the design of the car and the winter testing regime. End result is that the teams with the most developed scenarios are more likely to have the right answer.

Ian P.
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Joined: 08 Sep 2006, 21:57

Re: No Refueling Pit Stratrgies Tactics & Pace car implications.

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I too would like to see the tyre rules made more realistic.
Bridgstone is the F1 tyre supplier for one reason....publicity. It would seem unlikely they will intentionally bring "bad" tyres to an event. This means the prime and option tyres will have to be fairly close. Early this season, Bridgstone intentionally chose compounds that were two steps apart. Thankfully this has not been applied in the last few events. This is one business where bad publicicty is really bad.
Look to see prime and options being closer, not further apart.
The weight of the fuel in the car is going to be a hugh influence on the tyre situation. If they still have to run soft and hard compounds, they won't be able to start on the softs with full tanks.
My bet is start on the hards, manage then for 40 laps and change to the softs for the last 20. All dependant on the FIA not screwing this up by limiting compounds to those that won't go for 70% of the distance. The fact that Bridgstone needs to be precieved as providing "good" tyres is likely the only thing preventing this all going sideways.
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dumrick
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Joined: 19 Jan 2004, 13:36
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Re: No Refueling Pit Stratrgies Tactics & Pace car implications.

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ESPImperium wrote:I think that the tyres will be like this for 2010:

Start with the options, Stop arround lap 15 (average track length) for primes, 22 laps later stop for your second set of primes and go for the remainder 20ish laps on them.

Altho some tracks will have to be 3 stoppers i think, Hungaroring and Interlagos spring to mind.
So, in the 80's the norm was 1 stop and some cars on some races managed to do the whole race with the same tyres and 30 years later they will have to do an additional stop? I believe that the current trend of multiple stops has a lot to do with fuel weight penalty and that it may be biasing our expectations.

Belatti
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Joined: 10 Jul 2007, 21:48
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Re: No Refueling Pit Stratrgies Tactics & Pace car implications.

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dumrick wrote: So, in the 80's the norm was 1 stop and some cars on some races managed to do the whole race with the same tyres and 30 years later they will have to do an additional stop? I believe that the current trend of multiple stops has a lot to do with fuel weight penalty and that it may be biasing our expectations.

I agree. It would help to sit down and watch a couple of 80s and 90s races.

Monaco 1992 comes to my mind, when Senna did the whole race without piting and Mansell who was leading stopped in lap 70 because a puncture and made the last laps welded to Sennas gearbox who had worn out rear tires....

No refuelling will force Hamilton to refine his driving style to preserve his rear tires better.

And Raikkonen will have to pass his rivals on the track!

BTW, Ciro will delight us all at the end of 2010 with his statistics of overtaking.
Last edited by Belatti on 08 Oct 2009, 20:01, edited 1 time in total.
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ISLAMATRON
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Joined: 01 Oct 2008, 18:29

Re: No Refueling Pit Stratrgies Tactics & Pace car implications.

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Except for the narrower fronts, are the ties going to be the same compounds and constructions from this year? Do the teams still have to use both types of slicks?

I think they will have a pre race strategy, but will run the race according to the lap times... if they are too slow AND cannot hold off the cars behind them, they will pit for tires immediately. If they can hold off the other cars they will stay out as long as they can or until the other teams pit for tires then they will come in the next lap.

They should really have banned the tire warmers like they said they would then that would have made it really exciting.

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ringo
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Joined: 29 Mar 2009, 10:57

Re: No Refueling Pit Stratrgies Tactics & Pace car implications.

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Free practice will be all the more important. A smart team will practice and collect data continuously from a full to an empty tank so in car changes can be made accordingly during the race. Just imagine the drastic differences with braking and tyre wear as the car gets lighter and the weight shifts. Imagine the ride height changes as the car goes from starting heavy to finishing light on fumes.
It's possible we may see more pit stops next year, now that its tyre dependent and changing tyres alone only takes 5 seconds, so that cuts the pit stop times significantly compared to a refueling stop. It's a savings of about 4 seconds which means a lot in terms of making a time gap on an opponent.
Teams can pit once the tyre performance is off, instead of staying out and losing more than the aforementioned 4 seconds over a couple of laps.

What i find interesting is the cars like this year's ferrari and brawn that run their best with a little fuel weight. Imagine coming down to the last 5 laps and the ferrari starts driving worse. :lol:
For Sure!!

modbaraban
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Joined: 05 Apr 2007, 17:44
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: No Refueling Pit Stratrgies Tactics & Pace car implications.

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What do the rules say if a car is clearly about to run out of fuel during the race. Is it a DNF or one can refuel and get a penalty?

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: No Refueling Pit Stratrgies Tactics & Pace car implications.

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hmm..use KERs but turn it down to 5hp and hope you reach the pitsop.. :lol:
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modbaraban
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Joined: 05 Apr 2007, 17:44
Location: Kyiv, Ukraine

Re: No Refueling Pit Stratrgies Tactics & Pace car implications.

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I meant the 2010 situation where you can reach the pitstop but don't have enough fuel to finish the race unless you refuel

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