Mclaren set up problems in Practice 2? or generally slow?

[internetf1fan]

It might backfire or it might work magically. We all saw how McLaren made KERS work in 2009 while most other teams failed to do so and eventually got rid of KERS from their cars.

It took them more than half a season to make it work.
In a car that was designed around it.
How can you imagine it would work "magically"?

What I am saying is there are other avenues of development and McLaren should not just go around bolting on parts from other cars that were specifically designed for the particular car.

That is what you do in F1, even if you have fastest car.
You look for every idea no matter where it came from.

1)Because they know what they're doing as they have had a year of experience.

2)It seems McLaren have stopped their normal development programmes chasing parts from other teams. They should stop doing this if this delays their normal upgrade paths.

[timbo]

1)Because they know what they're doing as they have had a year of experience.

Think for a bit.
Where do you intent to place KERS motor?
Hint, tube is homologated; fuel tank is required to be positioned within certain dimensions.

2)It seems McLaren have stopped their normal development programmes chasing parts from other teams. They should stop doing this if this delays their normal upgrade paths.

That is a problem for every other team.
But you have to bite the bullet.

There's nothing that shows that this GP is NOT one-off for them just as Canada was for RBR.

[gridwalker]

It might backfire or it might work magically. We all saw how McLaren made KERS work in 2009 while most other teams failed to do so and eventually got rid of KERS from their cars.

It took them more than half a season to make it work.
In a car that was designed around it.
How can you imagine it would work "magically"?

What I am saying is there are other avenues of development and McLaren should not just go around bolting on parts from other cars that were specifically designed for the particular car.

That is what you do in F1, even if you have fastest car.
You look for every idea no matter where it came from.

1)Because they know what they're doing as they have had a year of experience.

2)It seems McLaren have stopped their normal development programmes chasing parts from other teams. They should stop doing this if this delays their normal upgrade paths.

So, McLaren should implement a device that the teams have agreed not to use, at the expense of all of their remaining credibility within the sporting community, for the sake of performance gains that might be negligible (or perhaps even work against them) and that they cannot test anyway?

This non-sequitur is almost a master-plan for McLaren's self destruction.

If McLaren are having problems with their aerodynamics now, just imagine what it would do when they try to work it around the components needed for KERS.

If McLaren are having problems with their balance right now, just imagine what would happen to the weight distribution when they add extra weight.

I could go on, but that would be an exercise in futility ...

Out of interest, does anyone know if the current generation of Mercedes engines even still carry the KERS pick up point? I heard that part of the reason why Williams never used their KERS was that Toyota never bothered updating their engine so that KERS could be integrated.

McLaren are not on the pace right now, but the time for desperate measures is NOT when you are leading the championship.

[ringo]

Anybody feeling Hamilton should have run with the ebd?
It is faster than how the car is now, it's just requires the driver to focus for 50 laps.
He himself said he would run with it. It definitely allowed him to go flat out in some turns. It would also benefit them to race it to get used to it.
Ferrari raced theirs in valencia, even when they thought it may or may not have worked as well as they wanted, and now they have improved it and are sitting behind the redbulls.

[Just_a_fan]

In a post-qualifying interview he said that he wanted to run with the EBD but the team decided against it. Shame - I think he would have lived with it.

I suppose in years gone by, the team would have slapped it back on to Button's car as he is so far down the grid so has less to lose. The parc ferme rules prevent it today, of course.

I was interested to see Hamilton defend Button when asked why there was such a big difference in their pace. He immediately said 'I haven't spoken to JB but the car is really difficult to drive' as if in denfence of his team mate.

No doubt some will say he was having a dig ('look it's difficult to drive but I still managed') but that's not how his voice tone came across.

Of all team mates, Hamilton and Button definitely come across as being on good terms rather than just making the right noises for the cameras. They look comfortable together and there is matey banter between them. They look genuinely happy when the other does well. If McLaren can keep this partnership together and friendly then it will benefit them all in the long term.

[ringo]

Whitmarsh probably wanted to prevent any speculation that Hamilton got better treatment if he used the ebd. Truth is, button doesn't like it and would still be in q2 while Hamilton may have been 3rd on the grid.
If martin keeps this hope he is going to damage their title hopes. Why hold back Hamilton to make things look equal. It's time to put the silver eggs in one basket, Vettel is running away with the points.

[segedunum]

Anybody feeling Hamilton should have run with the ebd?

I think both drivers wanted to run it. Given how far they are off I personally feel they needed to start testing and developing it as early as possible, starting this weekend. They need it. I know Ron Dennis said 'First you have to finish' but not bringing this in as soon as possible might cost them a DNF's worth of points over the next few races. Finishing is no good if you're looking at the prospect of being permanently behind.

However, perhaps a DNF at the British Grandprix with Ron Dennis peering over Martin Whitmarsh's shoulder with his car company having a car to sell is possibly not the publicity they need.............

[ringo]

Jenson didn't want it.

from pf1

The McLaren team was still working hard in their garage in the early hours of Saturday morning after deciding to remove the 'blown diffuser' it had introduced - but struggled with - in practice on Friday.

"There's still a lot of work still to do with it," conceded Button. "Removing it was the right decision."

It doesn't say he wants it or not, but it gives the impression that he believes he is better with the old car.

[PlatinumZealot]

Running it for the race would have brought them Valuable data though.

[speedsense]

Whitmarsh probably wanted to prevent any speculation that Hamilton got better treatment if he used the ebd. Truth is, button doesn't like it and would still be in q2 while Hamilton may have been 3rd on the grid.
If martin keeps this hope he is going to damage their title hopes. Why hold back Hamilton to make things look equal. It's time to put the silver eggs in one basket, Vettel is running away with the points.

According to reports,both floors were buckling and warping from the heat.

When did Vettel start running away with the points?

[Super racing]

In Valencia... I saw him, he hit Jean Todt over the head with the winners trophy, snatched Mark webber's points(and his front wing) and ran away with them. He also threw beer bottles at the people chasing him.

[WhiteBlue]

Whitmarsh probably wanted to prevent any speculation that Hamilton got better treatment if he used the ebd. Truth is, button doesn't like it and would still be in q2 while Hamilton may have been 3rd on the grid.
If martin keeps this hope he is going to damage their title hopes. Why hold back Hamilton to make things look equal. It's time to put the silver eggs in one basket, Vettel is running away with the points.

They were having very serious thermal issues in FP1 and FP2, so it must also have been a question of risk vs benefit. IMO McLaren's floor and rear suspension is set extremely low and rigid.

They were terrible over the bumps between T10 and T12. Hamilton's driving style obviously is much better suited to drive around such a problem than Button's who is extremely precise but not constantly edgy as Hamilton is.

Whitmarsh's policy is obviously to give both drivers the same material even on the risk of missing out on points. This may have partially been aided by the thermal risk analysis. Hamilton would not make such strategic considerations. A driver will try his luck if he can get a faster car. If he DNFs with a gearbox or suspension failure it isn't his fault but the team's that allowed him the final specification. So my view is that McLaren are obviously playing it more safe than potentially sorry.

[ringo]

Whitmarsh probably wanted to prevent any speculation that Hamilton got better treatment if he used the ebd. Truth is, button doesn't like it and would still be in q2 while Hamilton may have been 3rd on the grid.
If martin keeps this hope he is going to damage their title hopes. Why hold back Hamilton to make things look equal. It's time to put the silver eggs in one basket, Vettel is running away with the points.

According to reports,both floors were buckling and warping from the heat.

When did Vettel start running away with the points?

Well with his results in silverstone, it doesn't look like it. But let's say vettel won here, then won in germany, then hungary.
The car is there to make these wins very likely. It doesn't take much for redbull to win the next set of races. That car is and will be the fastest thing for the whole season, so Mclaren need to take advantage early out.
2nd place is a good result at silverston, but it's somewhat a lucky result.

[vall]

Whitmarsh probably wanted to prevent any speculation that Hamilton got better treatment if he used the ebd. Truth is, button doesn't like it and would still be in q2 while Hamilton may have been 3rd on the grid.
If martin keeps this hope he is going to damage their title hopes. Why hold back Hamilton to make things look equal. It's time to put the silver eggs in one basket, Vettel is running away with the points.

According to reports,both floors were buckling and warping from the heat.

When did Vettel start running away with the points?

Well with his results in silverstone, it doesn't look like it. But let's say vettel won here, then won in germany, then hungary.
The car is there to make these wins very likely. It doesn't take much for redbull to win the next set of races. That car is and will be the fastest thing for the whole season, so Mclaren need to take advantage early out.
2nd place is a good result at silverston, but it's somewhat a lucky result.

indeed, LH was lucky that his wing did not go off but only caused puncture to Vettel rare tire. And of course Vettel and Alonso both had terrible stars.

[segedunum]

Well with his results in silverstone, it doesn't look like it. But let's say vettel won here, then won in germany, then hungary. The car is there to make these wins very likely. It doesn't take much for redbull to win the next set of races. That car is and will be the fastest thing for the whole season, so Mclaren need to take advantage early out. 2nd place is a good result at silverston, but it's somewhat a lucky result.

It does put Red Bull in the box seat and Martin Whitmarsh mentioned that they can't win the championship if they are consistently slower, no matter how many times Red Bull's shot gun discharges into their knees.