Williams the new Tyrrell?

[zeph]

The photos in the "Most Beautiful" thread got me thinking. They were unassailable in their time, but now they have been relegated to also-rans.

Discuss.

[gilgen]

The photos in the "Most Beautiful" thread got me thinking. They were unassailable in their time, but now they have been relegated to also-rans.

Discuss.

What's with the heading? You have not explained. The only similarity is the fact that both teams are/were privateers, run by dedicated men. Other than that, there is no apparent connection.

[gridwalker]

Given the fact that Williams were the most successful team of the 90s, I'd say that a comparison to Lotus would be more fair than comparing them with Tyrrel.

Still, I wouldn't write the old boys off just yet : remember that Ferrari spent many years as also rans, but came back to have the most dominant winning streak on record.

If the remnants of the team behind the abominable "earth car" can come back from the death to win the title, anything can happen!

[zeph]

What's with the heading? You have not explained. The only similarity is the fact that both teams are/were privateers, run by dedicated men. Other than that, there is no apparent connection.

My bad. I meant the paralel that they both are privateers with a very successful past, but Tyrrell faded away and Williams seems to be on the same course.

Given the fact that Williams were the most successful team of the 90s, I'd say that a comparison to Lotus would be more fair than comparing them with Tyrrel.

Fair enough. But Tyrrell was pretty successful in their day as well. I guess both comparos have merit, in so far as any comparos have any merit at all, obviously

[ESPImperium]

Williams will win again, they just need a little cash and technichal injection with some know how from a experienced driver or two and they will be there.

Williams need a good engine, if they had the Toyota engine from last year or even the Renault power this year, id have expected tem to have better results than their early season showing was like.

The past 3 years with Toyota sort of lost them direction as they needed a good second driver aside Rosberg. All they need is also a strong technichal partner and design department as well. This i think is coming as i think Adam Parr and Patrick Head are looking at VW for the engines as they have the relatinship from the F2 cars there, also the Porsche/Williams Hybrid link ia also there as well, but this wont be before 2013 in the new formula. As for the Design department, i think that Patrick Head shouls let it go to someone that is a proven contempoary F1 designer like Jorg Zander, and give him time to devlop a car that can win.

The problem is with the above is that finances may not cover it. However, Williams may just have the edge with the Resource Cap for 2011 as well as they have been operationg with those levels for arround the last 5 years since the departure of BMW.

For now, they will be mid-feild plodders that will get there. But i have faith they can win a GP again.

[wesley123]

Seriously, Williams will get back, it is clear. Volkswagen wanted to deliver engines in F1, Williams delivers their KERS for use in porsche cars, notice the link? IMO it is most likely Williams will be the team that get the VW engines and full factory support. Then getting back to the top spots shouldnt be a problem anymore.

[zeph]

It could be, but they have not won a title since 1997, and their last win was Brazil 2004. Isn't it fair to say that it has been downhill since (except for maybe 2003)?

[gilgen]

It could be, but they have not won a title since 1997, and their last win was Brazil 2004. Isn't it fair to say that it has been downhill since (except for maybe 2003)?

I cannot understand your reasoning. All teams have ups and downs. Even Ferrari went for over 21 years without a title, and some of these were very poor years. Williams have improved over the last few years. But I still cannot see why you are likening Williams to Tyrell. Please explain.

[zeph]

But I still cannot see why you are likening Williams to Tyrell. Please explain.

What's with the heading? You have not explained. The only similarity is the fact that both teams are/were privateers, run by dedicated men. Other than that, there is no apparent connection.

My bad. I meant the paralel that they both are privateers with a very successful past, but Tyrrell faded away and Williams seems to be on the same course.

Given the fact that Williams were the most successful team of the 90s, I'd say that a comparison to Lotus would be more fair than comparing them with Tyrrel.

Fair enough. But Tyrrell was pretty successful in their day as well. I guess both comparos have merit, in so far as any comparos have any merit at all, obviously

It's pretty shallow, but I thought it would be a way to start a new discussion about Williams. I do not necessarily agree with the thread title, BTW. Just trying to stir things up a little here.

[mr moda]

Williams ( IMHO ) have always done well when they have a strong relationship with their engine supplier. Something that has been lacking in the past. BMW appeared to be a great thing at the start but it appeared that the 2 parties were never had a common goal.

[WhiteBlue]

I don't believe in VW as an engine supplier in 2013. They are very dedicated to the GRE project and they will do an I-4 for some motor racing categories. I don't see F1 going for a GRE compatible spec. It is simply against their marketing philosophy. I think F1 will end up with V4 or W4 turbos. So Williams would be well advised to look for alternatives.

[xpensive]

I find the similarities between Lotus and Williams rather obvious, a once great team sliding back the grid, increasing financing difficulties leading to pay-drivers and such engines. But I guess the same could be said for Brabham.

As for VW coming to the rescue with factory support, I'd be surprised, but wouldn' a "WVW GP" be kinda cool?

[timbo]

W4 turbos

Eh?
Twin two-cylinder blocks? Do I understand correctly?

[WhiteBlue]

W4 turbos

Eh?
Twin two-cylinder blocks? Do I understand correctly?

If you know the VW 8L W16, the 6L W12, the 4L W8 you can extrapolate the 2L or 1.6L W4. Yes I would think it would have two blocks but the rational is a bit weak. It makes the engine shorter than a V4 but the need for this is not so pressing as with 16, 12, and 8 cylinders.

[xpensive]

How about a VW-style VR5, or perhaps a Star-type engine, perfectly balanced that, perhaps installed vertically?