Is McLaren really off the pace?

[Alge7a]

Sorry peoples to drag you in to this already over debated subject. The talk of this years design and wether they really are in trouble is obviously filling up the blogs but id love to know what any of you think about the design of this years car. The general theory being that its quite radical compared to ferrari and RB and that it might take some time to get the set up in harmony. Brundel from trackside reported a few days ago that the mclren looked shocking as though on cold tyres. Any thoughts.

[myurr]

Okay here are my thoughts:
* The McLaren is relatively light on it's tyres and was struggling to get temperature into them in the cold conditions.
* So far they've only really been concentrating on reliability and basic setup.
* At the next test we'll see a new front wing and possibly snow plough specifically designed for the side pods.
* At the next test we'll see a revised aero solution around the rear, tightening the bodywork as the definitive exhaust solution is fitted.
* We'll also see a couple of trick aero devices or concepts.
* Diffuser and rear wing will receive minor tweaks.
* If the next test is cold then they'll appear closer to the pace but still a little behind Ferrari and Red Bull.
* If the next test is warm then they'll be right at the sharp end.

All just personal opinion and speculation

[scotty86]

All already being discussed to death here.

People who i would consider being in the know say they're struggling, so i'm going with them. They are also losing ground all the time to the likes of Red Bull and Ferrari while they are trying to fix these problems. Of course, 'of the pace' is a relative term, i guess.

[Just_a_fan]

In fairness, the relative pace of the car should not be discussed in the car's thread. That thread (linked to by you) is purely for discussion of the technical aspects of the car - although it gets hijacked by others all too frequently.

Starting a new thread was the right thing to do although a more general "how do the cars compare in terms of pace" might have been more useful.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Similar thing to the W02 thread, although much of the chatter is regards the speculated updates which pertain to technical aspects of the car...meaning its a valid post.

grey area

[vall]

last time there were big regulation changes, they screwed it up badly. I would not be shocked (and unhappy!) if they did it again.

[Pup]

A. It's just testing
B. They're still running last year's front wing
C. They haven't done enough setup work
D. The track temps are nothing like they'll see in the season
E. The tires might well change before Aus
F. They might have a reworked rear end now that they've picked an exhaust
G. The cars are all faster than the tires anyway
H. Does it matter? They were a second off the pace starting last year, and they led both championships at halfway
...
Z. Aren't we discussing this elsewhere?

[Tamburello]

In short, yes, they are off the pace. If a GP were to be held tomorrow they'd be struggling to make Q3. They could turn it around of course, but at the moment their car isn't very good.

As to tyres, well they're the same for everybody.

[Just_a_fan]

If a GP were to be held tomorrow they'd be struggling to make Q3.

Really? They seemed to be comfortably in the top 10 for the last test. Indeed, Hamilton was P3 at the last test day.

[ajdavison2]

The only time we're going to get a true indication the teams pace relative to each other is qualifying in Oz for raw speed, then the race, for race pace ( obviously ), until then I don't think any of the spectators can second guess what any of the teams are doing relative to each other.

[Tamburello]

If a GP were to be held tomorrow they'd be struggling to make Q3.

Really? They seemed to be comfortably in the top 10 for the last test. Indeed, Hamilton was P3 at the last test day.

Those headline times are misleading. No driver has done a proper qualifying type lap yet, i.e. one with enough fuel for one or two circuits.

But from most of the analysis of the long runs and what the balance of the cars seem like out on track, the indications are that McLaren are off the pace and would be right in the midfield mix in terms of Q3 pace. Remember last year they at times struggled in this regard as well, missing out on Q3 occasionally.

[timd]

How the hell can you do a qualifying lap session on these tyres and start the race given their drop off.

I have looked over a few past years times with the hindsight of the end of year results and really, other than Brawn's flash at the top, you dont see much. Especially when you consider all the teams that can look good in testing but be nowhere in races.

I think its all going to be a muddle at the start anyway. Probably to Mclarens favor.

[Just_a_fan]

Those headline times are misleading. No driver has done a proper qualifying type lap yet, i.e. one with enough fuel for one or two circuits.

But from most of the analysis of the long runs and what the balance of the cars seem like out on track, the indications are that McLaren are off the pace and would be right in the midfield mix in terms of Q3 pace. Remember last year they at times struggled in this regard as well, missing out on Q3 occasionally.

So, the times aren't enough to support McLaren but they are enough to damn them?

As is said so often hereabouts, testing is meaningless because we know nothing about the tyres used, fuel loads, test schedules etc. You have just nicely demonstrated this...

[nipo]

From another perspective, can we say McLaren is a bit "off the pace" as far as the test plan is concerned? They haven't done enormous mileage and they've had shortage of parts (something I thought only happened to new/small teams). It makes me think their factory deliveries have been delayed somewhat and they were not as ready as their direct competitors were coming to the tests. Anyone share the same opinion?

If that is indeed true, can we deduce that if McLaren hasn't figured out the genius design, they'll probably be off the pace compared to RB and Ferrari at the start of the season?

[scotty86]

I think they took somewhat of a gamble in trying to get 'reliable' tyre info over putting laps on the new car, and now they're suffering because they're having reliability issues that are preventing them getting the mileage in and actually learning about the new car itself alongside the Pirellis, while the other teams for the most part got this 'phase' out the way at the first test. I certainly question McLaren's logic in bringing the new car out late when Hamilton was saying "It feels difficult to know how much of it is car and how much is tyres" just last Sunday.

Obviously that leaves McLaren at a disadvantage, at least in the short term. It probably isn't helping them that certainly Hamilton (dunno about Button) isn't enjoying these new tyres thus far.