Head to head analysis between Hamilton vs. Vettel

[2011F1]

Head to head analysis between Sebastian Vettel and Lewis Hamilton by each lap.

In the above stats we can easily read Hamilton did 17 better laps than Vettel with his half second slower MP4-26 over RB6. That is enough to prove Hamilton’s class driving except one pit stop advantage.



Source: http://www.formula1onlive.com/2011/03/2 ... lewis.html

[raymondu999]

Again. You can't really read out ultimate pace these days. We don't know, for example, if Vettel was simply managing his pace in the latter half. We don't know how much downforce Hamilton's broken part saw him

[CHT]

Again. You can't really read out ultimate pace these days. We don't know, for example, if Vettel was simply managing his pace in the latter half. We don't know how much downforce Hamilton's broken part saw him

Is this a proven comparison method?

[raymondu999]

Huh? All I'm saying is, you can say that Hamilton drove faster than Vettel in your data (cars taken into account). We cannot act upon the assumption that both were going flat out, and hence cannot conclude that they were flat out at any time.

eg. you can see from the data that, relatively to their cars' qualifying pace, Hamilton maintained better pace throughout the race. However, you cannot take this as conclusive that Hamilton is faster than Vettel. Vettel could have been maintaining a gap. Or maybe he could be flat out. Hamilton could also have been maintaining tyres and just bringing it home. or he could be flat out banzai.

[Formula None]

This thread implies Hamilton is a benchmark by which to be measured against.

[bhall]

Loooooois also had KERS and Vettel, infamously, did not.

Class...hehe.

[CHT]

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper

[Hangaku]

Again. You can't really read out ultimate pace these days. We don't know, for example, if Vettel was simply managing his pace in the latter half. We don't know how much downforce Hamilton's broken part saw him

We have to be able to judge pace somehow. Everyone says we can't judge it, but we have to be able to. It seems that no conditions meet criteria, because it doesn't fulfill the wishest for their favourite driver.

Seriously. Lap times are all we have, so that's all we can judge pace by.

[747heavy]

Code: Select all

Fastest Laps          1st      2nd      3rd
during the race

Fernando Alonso        21       5         8
Sebastian Vettel       16      11         5
Lewis Hamilton 	      9      13         3
Mark Webber 	         4      15        13
Jenson Button 	       3       4        13

data from F1matrix.it

so what?
with statistics you can (try to) prove, whatever you like/want to prove.

while interesting, it just shows that Vettel was quick when it counted, and Hamilton did not had an answer to the pace.(last 10 laps)

I don´t mean it offensive to any of them, as I think both are extraordinary good drivers.

Fastest laps, don´t win you a race (ask Ferrari/Alonso).
You can be a lap down and still be in every single lap of the race quicker, then the guy who won it, what does it prove?

With the tire situation as they is/was, and people worried about there tires, you don´t push them, if you don´t have to - IMHO

What is it good for to push like mad, and show off your speed and have a 20sec gap, only to see a safety car come out with 8 laps to go, and you have no tire left to fight off the guys behind?

IMHO (but I could be wrong) Vettel was controling it´s pace, and when the risk of a late safety car was becomming less, put the hammer down, and nobody could follow.

Let´s see how the situation looks during the next race(s), it´s still early days.
No need to jump to rushed conclusions and predictions for the season ahead - IMO

[myurr]

Until Hamilton's car broke I think that Vettel was pushing as much as he thought the tyres would let him. There was more absolute pace in the car but using would have burnt out the tyres. Definitely in the first stint we can be 100% sure that Vettel wouldn't have been cruising whilst letting Hamilton close right up on him. If anything had Hamilton pitted just one lap earlier than the Red Bull then we would have come out in front due to the new tyre advantage and then, broken car aside, I think he would have been able to keep Vettel behind him due to the better tyre degradation of his car.

But you're right we cannot draw any solid conclusions from the above, and definitely not after Hamilton's car broke and both he and Vettel then just cruised to the line.

[raymondu999]

I agree. I think he was pushing to his RACE PACE limit. I feel ultimately, in a go-for-broke flat-out lap, the Red Bull would scamper away into the distance, but it would probably eat up tyres. So Vettel was pushing within himself to save tyres as much as anything else. Which means it's as good as that is their race pace. Vettel seems to usually cruise to the finish when he has a comfy gap to the 2nd placed guy. I remember after Hamilton's drive thru in Valencia that Vettel turned down massively and started lapping some 2 or 3 seconds slower than his usual pace

[PlatinumZealot]

His tyres were done remember? Hamilton kept his tyres longer. I think Hamilton know he can beat Vettel if he only just gets his car slightly faster. When you read all the Hamilton quotes after Melbourne I think he's got a psychological confidence over the Speed of Vettel. In other words Hamilton knows that Vettel's speed has not yet been proven against a top driver. And the way he was gaining on him at the end of the first stint shows a weakness in Vettel's control over worn tyres.

[CHT]

His tyres were done remember? Hamilton kept his tyres longer. I think Hamilton know he can beat Vettel if he only just gets his car slightly faster. When you read all the Hamilton quotes after Melbourne I think he's got a psychological confidence over the Speed of Vettel. In other words Hamilton knows that Vettel's speed has not yet been proven against a top driver. And the way he was gaining on him at the end of the first stint shows a weakness in Vettel's control over worn tyres.

Lewis was about 2sec behind Vettel right before vettel pitted on lap 14. When Vettel rejoin the race, he was stuck behind button briefly before overtaking him on lap 15. On lap 16, lewis pitted, and rejoin the race right next to button, and Vettel was already 5.5 sec ahead. What happen after that, is all history.


Vettel and Lewis pitted for soft tyres on lap 14 and 16 respectively, and both pitted again on lap 36 for prime tyres. Which mean, Vettel did managed to run his soft tyres for 22 laps (8 laps more then his first stint on same soft tyres) while lewis only managed 20.

I am not trying to draw any conclusion here but I think it is premature to say Lewis is good at preserving tyres, or Lewis was pushing Vettel to the limit.

[segedunum]

I think a lot of these race analysese are a bit useless because the only time during the race you can compare two cars and drivers is from the beginning when the cars are equal with one trying to build a gap and the other trying to close it. You don't get flat out racing these days.

In times gone by a driver like Vettel with a car like the Red Bull would have been thirty seconds to a minute down the road. That doesn't happen now because as soon as a driver and team have what they feel like is a maneagable safety cushion they start saving fuel, turning the engine down and saving the engine and gearbox - which need to be used in several races now. However, Vettel and Red Bull could have responded at any time had they needed to.

This is why I cringe whenever I hear teams covering their backsides with this 'race pace' nonsense, trying to claim they are closer in the race than in qualifying. In reality, qualifying is the only time when the cars are all truly equal and you find out where you are and what the guy in front can really do if he is pushed.

Hamilton was easier on his tyres? Well, is there any point when the guy in front pulled out ten seconds on him without even thinking about it? Vettel gained five seconds alone after the first stops. If you're in a slower car, as long as it doesn't move around too much, you are going to wear your tyres less. As soon as McLaren start chasing performance I bet their tyre wear will go up.

It's not a zero sum game as many seem to be assuming. Change something and everything else changes.

[BreezyRacer]

Again. You can't really read out ultimate pace these days. We don't know, for example, if Vettel was simply managing his pace in the latter half. We don't know how much downforce Hamilton's broken part saw him

We have to be able to judge pace somehow. Everyone says we can't judge it, but we have to be able to. It seems that no conditions meet criteria, because it doesn't fulfill the wishest for their favourite driver.

Seriously. Lap times are all we have, so that's all we can judge pace by.

Actually we call that comparison Qualifying! "Studies" like this only show what the presenter wants to show you .. it's just BS