Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
IMHO - Hamilton did not look like a threat after the first round of pitstops, nor did anybody else.
Alonso was quick from mid race towards the end, but he lost too much time early on.
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver." - Colin Chapman
“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci
BreezyRacer wrote:Actually we call that comparison Qualifying!
Yes and no, race pace is determined as much by fuel consumption and tire wear as it is by absolute pace. None of the teams can sustain qualifying times through a race, so it's worth taking a look. Though what can be learned from a single race is debatable.
That said, I think McLaren made a tactical error in pitting Hamilton late - probably hoping that Button would hold up Vettel. When that didn't work, I think both teams went into fuel saving mode and decided to wait it out and see whos tires went the first. Hamilton's floor failure scuppered that, and at that point the finishing order was set.
So - maybe the first stint is the only one worth comparing.
I think that the first sting is never a "Pace" stint. RBR strategy has always been "leave 'em for dead" in stint one and control the pace in the latter stints.
As to how Vettel got the gap up to 5 seconds after the pits? Just watch the race lol. It wasn't magic!
The point is that in the first "run it and gun it stint Hamilton cut the gap to 1.5 seconds when Vettel was crying for tyres. The second stop was just a strategy stop. In fact Hamilton himself said that he could go for many laps more at a competitive pace. Just check the interview.
747heavy wrote:IMHO - Hamilton did not look like a threat after the first round of pitstops, nor did anybody else.
Alonso was quick from mid race towards the end, but he lost too much time early on.
You can see Hamilton was preparing to engage Vettel at lap 26 then the bib broke and he got slower. He definitely could hang with the Bull despite the car advantage.
p.s Vettel and his purple Rocket-ship won't be so lucky in Malaysia; the Boss is going to give him it HARD down those straights!
n smikle wrote:
You can see Hamilton was preparing to engage Vettel at lap 26 then the bib broke and he got slower.
No I can´t - but I´m sure you can.
I can see, that he could stay with him on new tires, some 7-8 sec down the road after his stop, not cutting much/anything out of Vettels lead at the time.
Let´s wait and see, lot´s of things can happen
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver." - Colin Chapman
“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci
First stint is interesting because if you're watching from Vettel's position, his goal was sure to be as far as possible ahead of Hamilton. I mean he knew Hamilton was pushing, but he was unable to keep the distance. Not succeeding in this, and Hamilton closing the gap to some 1.5sec is far from optimal if you're just about to pit. So it's fair to say IMO that Vettel was unable to stay ahead as much as he wants...so he was quite far from "controlling" the race. We can agree that if you have Hamilton chasing you, it's not the best strategy to let him close the gap to just 1.5sec before pitstop. I think it would be better for McLaren to pit Hamilton in same lap as Vettel, but after the damage had happened, and that's it.
Qualifying pace compared to race pace this year is far different than previous years. With a degrading tire, we won't see laptimes comparable to qualifying because when the fuel load gets low enough, the tires won't have the grip to comply to setting a "close to" qualifying lap.
There are a few things that are evident from the laptimes. 1) majority of Vettel's gain was the first lap (2.4), slow start by Hamilton (dirty side of track), then having to contend with Webber for that lap and the beginning of the following lap. Second lap, Vettel opened an addition .7 and as has been consistent with the tires, they fall after two laps and just about the difference in pace of qualifying..
From this point on Hamilton and Vettel traded faster times with Hamilton's car outpacing Vettel from lap 4.
2) You can see the slope of Vettel's tires dropping off, Webber pits lap 10, Vettel lap 13. Hamilton goes gains 1.4 seconds on Vettel over the two laps before Vettel stops. (It would be interesting to see the pit times for both)
3)On lap 27 you can see Hamilton's splitter flapping down the front straight (head on camera shot)...
4) The understeer created by this caused the fronts to burn off, thus forcing Hamilton to pit on same lap as Vettel.. Any hopes of catching Vettel ended on lap 27 for Hamilton. Vettel cruised from there...
Clearly the Mclaren uses it's tires more efficently and gains on the RBR from lap 4 on, it has the pace when the car's aero is intact.
Malaysia will be more telling as it's harder on tires than Australia is. Mclaren are close, if they can take away another .5 of a second from RBR, they won't need pole to win...
Wonder if Mclaren's flexing front wing will have more flex in Malaysia, because they don't have enough now...IMHO
"Driving a car as fast as possible (in a race) is all about maintaining the highest possible acceleration level in the appropriate direction." Peter Wright,Techical Director, Team Lotus
to be fair, for the most part of the first stint Hamilton did not close the gap significant, it stayed more or less the same at ~ 3-4 sec.
Vettel was unable to pull away (or did not wanted to - I dunno, it´s up to anyone to make up his own mind), and on the same tokken, Hamilton did not come much closer.
However, Hamilton gained in lap 13, when Vettels tires where starting to fall away, RBR pitted Vettel, because from the tests we know, that the tire has a "point of no return".
The lap time of both during the there stops was more or less the same, but Vettels outlap after his stop was ~1.2sec faster then Hamilton´s outlap.
So he basicly gained in this lap back what he lost in lap 12&13 to Hamilton.
Thereafter from lap 17 onwards we have a similar situation for a while, both laptimes are similar and the gap remains the same (Hamilton falling slightly behind), from lap 26 on, Hamilton fades away (broken splitter/floor etc.).
Anyhow, in the beginning of the second stint, he could not gain significant on Vettel. (whatever bad set of tires, tire pressure, trying too hard - who knows ?)
I would agree with the forum members saying, that McLaren maybe pitted Hamilton too late at the first stop, but 20/20 vision after the fact, is a wonderful thing.
look at Vettels laptime in lap 55 & 56, he goes 1:29.962 in lap 56 about 1sec faster as in lap 55 and only 0.1 sec slower, then his best race lap in lap 44.
I´m quite sure, he had some speed "on tap" in this phase of the race.
How much? Maybe we are going to see/learn more in Malaysia - bring it on.
Last edited by 747heavy on 31 Mar 2011, 13:44, edited 1 time in total.
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver." - Colin Chapman
“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci
Didn't vettel change tyres for his second hot lap?
I don't think the were the same set.
Whatever the case is, the first stint is the "go hard" stint, Vettel was not in control at that point.
I don't think first stints can be considered control the race stints.
Hamilton's gonna get him soon enough. When it does happen, Vettel will get roughed up, and he'll be spinning off track because he can't handle the pressure.
ringo wrote:Didn't vettel change tyres for his second hot lap?
I don't think the were the same set.
Whatever the case is, the first stint is the "go hard" stint, Vettel was not in control at that point.
I don't think first stints can be considered control the race stints.
Hamilton's gonna get him soon enough. When it does happen, Vettel will get roughed up, and he'll be spinning off track because he can't handle the pressure.
The first stint is not exactly a go hard stint as drivers and teams were still pretty clueless about the durability of the Pirelli soft tyres in race trim.
For Vettel, who is leading the race from pole, there is really nothing much to gain weather if he lead by 2 sec or 20 sec ahead of lewis. ultimately it is about staying ahead and bringing the car to the finish line and collect the 25 points.
ringo wrote:
Didn't vettel change tyres for his second hot lap?
I don't think they were the same set.
You are right Ringo - my bad - appologiese
both started on tires which had done one fast lap.
@ Raymondu999
thanks fo pointing out my mistake
Last edited by 747heavy on 31 Mar 2011, 13:49, edited 2 times in total.
"Make the suspension adjustable and they will adjust it wrong ......
look what they can do to a carburetor in just a few moments of stupidity with a screwdriver." - Colin Chapman
“Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication.” - Leonardo da Vinci
raymondu999 wrote:I don't get it. Where's his 1:23.529? :s
I'm not sure how to read the :s face? Does that mean "sarcasm"? But either way, the 1:23.529 was during qualifying, not the race. The fast lap for the race was only 1:28.947 by Massa.
