A New Paradigm of Friction

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AleksNick
AleksNick
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A New Paradigm of Friction

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Did Coulumb's low make a mistake? VIEW A NEW PARADIGM OF FRICTION
for Discussion of Discovery with Title „THE CAPILLARY STRUCTURE OF FRICTION‟ https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid= ... y=CIaE5KUC

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: A New Paradigm of Friction

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Nope.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

Caito
Caito
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Joined: 16 Jun 2009, 05:30
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Re: A New Paradigm of Friction

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Instead of just advertising your paper, why don't you tell us who you are. A brief introduction of the paper would be nice,too.
Come back 747, we miss you!!

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spinmastermic
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Joined: 28 Oct 2008, 18:13
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Re: A New Paradigm of Friction

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Caito wrote:Instead of just advertising your paper, why don't you tell us who you are. A brief introduction of the paper would be nice,too.
Yeah, I thought he was trying to sell off cheap friction lol

andrew
andrew
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Joined: 16 Feb 2010, 15:08
Location: Aberdeen, Scotland - WhiteBlue Country (not the region)

Re: A New Paradigm of Friction

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Caito wrote:Instead of just advertising your paper, why don't you tell us who you are. A brief introduction of the paper would be nice,too.
Looks like this is causing friction! :lol:

Caito
Caito
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Joined: 16 Jun 2009, 05:30
Location: Switzerland

Re: A New Paradigm of Friction

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andrew wrote:
Caito wrote:Instead of just advertising your paper, why don't you tell us who you are. A brief introduction of the paper would be nice,too.
Looks like this is causing friction! :lol:

I must say I'm bored of reporting 1post users which only advertise. As this seemed to be a paper, I just thought I wouldn't report him. But to me it's clear ad.
Come back 747, we miss you!!

AleksNick
AleksNick
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Joined: 26 Jun 2011, 23:41

Re: A New Paradigm of Friction

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Dear friends! Many thanks for your comments! This Forum may be not interesting for me, because its has a little scientific level. What do you think about the frictional force or frictional coefficient? How will your skates-move on snow? How will your pattens-move on ice? It possible important discovery for me. Best regards.

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: A New Paradigm of Friction

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Aleks, first, welcome.

Second, yes, we're not a scientific forum, but a technical one. Many of us are engineers (you know, these people who don't get paid if what they create in their minds doesn't work in the real world... ;)). So, we're concerned more with actual performances of tyres under friction, a consideration which severely restrict what you can actually write here with confidence on the understanding of the majority. Anyway, I think your article is readable even for people like me, that is, people which is always thinking "how does this equation relate to what I am building?".

Thirdly, well, I think we've already discussed the work of Bo Person, of course in engineering terms. We showed how the apparent contact area is not constant, how the different forces at the different "levels" of asperities, from atomic to microscopic sizes, influence the total friction and the phenomena of direct contact friction. Actually, if you dig the forum you will find, for example, a couple of posts on the history of tribology and how this new theory of friction presented in your article led to a better understanding of how is the melted rubber that flows into the interface of rubber and pavement what gives tyres its grip. The conclusion presented is that Formula One tyres are not worn out, they are sucked dry. We thought at that moment, some years ago, that this meant a new paradigm, at least for tyre engineers (although the fact has been known from experience for some time, the equations behind it were not understood, that I know). I can tell you that the discussion that followed was lively.

Actually, we wondered how this new paradigm could have influenced the Formula One championship, given the fact that Mr. Person numbers and theory were used by Ferrari to describe the way the tyres used at that moment in the championship worked. They (Ferrari) were dominant for some years and the suspension dampers they used were radically different from the ones used by their competitors. This happened in rapid sucession after the first articles by Mr. Person were published, and its work validated and advanced by some scientists teaching at an Italian university very close to FIAT. Part of the working group were actually working for the Italian car manufacturer... so you can imagine how suspicious we were of their relationship with the tyre manufacturer, which indirectly financed Mr. Person work. He even appeared in some pictures with the tyres and the equations in the background. As you can see I'm so paranoid as to be able to think that this theory created Ferrari dominance and multiple championships for Michael Schumacher, but I repeat, I'm a mere engineer and not among the best.

What I don't see clearly (I apologize in advance in case this sounds too... I don't know, too something) is which are the new contributions in your article to Mr. Person theory.

What was that I did not dig entirely? Are you actually recycling his ideas or there is some new contribution I cannot discern? Again, I'm sorry if this sound rude or based in ignorance, but I agree heartily with you: after more than a century with ridiculously small advances in understanding friction, a better theory was needed and more clever experiments were to be made. As I said, I thought this void have already been filled by Mr. Person.

In fourth place, there are some parts in the article I do not understand very well (my fault, I'm sure), specially the part of the weight supported by a needle as a kind of new "thought experiment" that changes the outcome of friction values when compared with a "classic thought experiment". Could you rephrase it for an engineer? Is the weight on top of the needle moving with respect to the weight below or are they moving together, for starters?

I also have not the slightest idea of how the green rollers shown in your article actually work and it's not apparent from the picture presented (at least not to me), so I fail to grasp the conclusions you get from the numbers shown.

Lemme tell you that I still have to find a scientific article on this new development in tribology that can be explained in laymen terms to my colleagues. Some of us, with a little scientific training, actually find joy in this role of "translators", that is, translators from "hard science paper" to "technical advice article". Anyway, the article you wrote is the easiest to understand of all the papers on this subject that I've found. JTom post (to me) shows that either a) the conclusions are not that important for real world practice or b) it's a secret (again? :D).

Having said all that, I want to emphatically say "thanks a lot" for introducing us to your article, pretty interesting.

In a forum there is a lot of different people with different intentions and responses to one's input, so don't despair if some answers show you that not everybody understand what you write. Actually, I'm confessing I did not understand it very well!

I, for one, would actually beg you to continue "polluting" the forum with your "shameless" self adverts of scientific work. As mentioned already, you probably have the evil intention of spreading knowledge.

Finally, my skates are a bit rusty these days, I'm living two degrees north of the Equator. 8)
Ciro

AleksNick
AleksNick
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Joined: 26 Jun 2011, 23:41

Re: A New Paradigm of Friction

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Dear Ciro, I was surprised welcome news on your answer! Many thanks!
First of all, my comments for actual performances of tyres under friction is following: if I would like maximal tyres friction, I will think to have beeen the more area of contact! For example, I can learn some aspects for tyres friction in Wikipedia (Bicycle performance - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicycle_performance or the Formula One tyres - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tire), but there are not the aspects that contain a new paradigm of friction. The idea of new paradigm is next. If I a driver of Ferrari, I will have more speed on dry road in comparison with hydroplaning.
Tribology is very tangle, because it has a mistake! But a New paradigm of friction has not mysticism or another secrets! Do you know the main difference of discovery from invention. The registration of invention is a difficult procedure because its call to disclosure of 'know-how', but the discovery is, for example, the calls to 'disclosure' of natural phenomenon. Therefore, discoveries has not World registration, but they more important for people!
How a New paradigm of friction will have an effect to high society?
History of friction knowledge has more than 500 years! But why it has the tangle? It is very simple: it has a mistake!
Do you want to know what it is a mistake?
Please, you can see Wikipedia (the Free Encyclopedia) or a physical textbook, or the books for Tribology - Amontons' Second Law runs as follows: The force of friction is independent of the apparent area of contact - it is a mistake!!!
My arguments are next.
I have a stable weight but different conditions for move. When I take a walk along asphalt in winter my shoes has not stability unusually under snow or ice-slick. When I walk along ice, my shoes has slide and I think about skates. But if I get on loose snow then I don't think about skates. Why I think about skis? It is obvious that I think about the different apparent area of contact for me every time!
Scientists maybe say: it is not arguments!
Then I offer such scientists one's services: I invite to roll down (from top of snow hill) in a sleigh together. We have a stable weight together and we roll down equally every time. Therefore our way is long equally too, but then I deploy our sleigh across the move. What do you think about change the way length - it become less and why?
It is a few aspects only. All of these aspects have not independence from the apparent area of contact! Contain these aspects of discovery or not (to roll down across the move for less way)?
Finally, the main conclusion of new paradigm of friction for real world practice: this idea was presented and tested in the internal combustion engine in Germany in 2009. Results of testing are increase of max. torque on 8% and engine power on 9% also. At the same time, increase of the engine efficiency on 5% was observed due to the capillary structure of friction, which was created in oiling system of the engine and in plunger compression pair of the fuel apparatus.
Best regards,
Aleks

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
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Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: A New Paradigm of Friction

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For COULOMB friction, it is assumed that area isn't a major influence. Don't think anyone thinks tire traction is Coulomb friction. Has been established for quite some time that hysteretic and adhesive forces are at work, which do mean area is of significance.

Nothing new here.

As for anything else... is Coulomb friction a "mistake?" No. It's a model - simple and effective. No macro model is 100% perfect, nor is it assumed to be.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.

AleksNick
AleksNick
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Joined: 26 Jun 2011, 23:41

Re: A New Paradigm of Friction

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Dear Mr. Jersey Tom, thank you for your comments!
Do you sure that Coulomb friction and adhesive forces aren't working simultaneously?
And you are sure that for Coulomb friction, it is assumed that area isn't a major influence. Then I invite you to roll down (from top of snow hill) in a sleigh together! (wherein Coulomb friction is maximal and is not of adhesive forces) We will down to measure the length of a way after our lowering. What do you think about change of the length, it will less when we will deploy our sleigh across the move? And why?
I sure that Coulomb friction is dependent of pressure, i.e. Coulomb friction is dependent of the apparent area of contact. But I don't know it is news or not?
Kind regards.

AleksNick
AleksNick
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Joined: 26 Jun 2011, 23:41

Re: A New Paradigm of Friction

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Dear Mr. Caito, Thank you for your comments too! I am Homo sapiens. Excuse me, I am Author of article "A New Paradigm of Friction" also. But it is not advertising, because this Discovery is to help people more about friction phenomena.
Sincerely, yours AleksNick

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PlatinumZealot
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Joined: 12 Jun 2008, 03:45

Re: A New Paradigm of Friction

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Interesting paper.
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