Mercedes AMG A45

[Jon]

And whoever says that F1 isnt road relevant should potentially look at this car.

Why do you say this? What ties this car to F1 technology?

(Genuine question, I have never heard of this car before.)

[RacingManiac]

I really really like the look of that car.

And whoever says that F1 isnt road relevant should potentially look at this car.

Yeah why exactly is F1 technology relevant in this car?

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

The engine was redeveloped by engineers at brixworth, who are in developmental stages of their turbo f1 unit.
A clean direct link right there.

[RacingManiac]

Thats as clear a link as BMW M car are related to their F1 programs....

Of course there is going to be knowledge transfer, but direct design transfer I doubt is likely.

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

@racing maniac

Did you read the article?

[RacingManiac]

Yes, but like I said, the same link can be drawn no different to how you can say BMW M car engine uses F1 technology. And really that is vague at best. Requirement for road worthy engine is vastly different to one designed for racing...you can't unlearn something you learn from making F1 engine, so knowledge transferred definitely exists. But the sheer difference is operation require pretty much guarantee any actual similarity is really only in press release bullet point. You also can't expect an F1 engine shop that makes maybe 50 engines a year(8 engine per 6 cars?) to actually produce albeit still limited, but vastly more quantity in tens of thousands of unit for road car...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Thats fair enough, but Mercedes link is that much stronger.

Why you may ask?
Well Mercedes HPE have been designing benching the 1.6 litre Turbo for around 24 months now, and Mercedes themselves gave Brixworth a base 2.0 litre turbo that was knocking around the Daimler parts bin and gave them the responsibility to crack on and give them an engine matching their requirements.

Brixworth have extracted the headline figures using their know how, F1 know how.

The lump may be the same, but its a very different animal. Especially when you consider this is a 2.0 litre pushing 330bhp and over 300lb torque, matching Audi's figures with 500cc and a cylinder less(25% less).
The links to this engine and the Future 1.6 litre turbo are pretty much non existent of course, but the know how behind both is not.

[RacingManiac]

Higher displacement figure may well fit better in a road going application though. Less stress on component and lower boost pressure usually means easier to managed heat and less issue with long term reliability, not to mention turbo lag. Subaru/Mitsubishi's WRC-style road car in Lancer Evo or WRX STI has been pushing 300bhp out of a 2L turbo 4 bangers for a long time now(Subaru switched to a 2.5 liter later on)....And really the amount of work required to get a 2.0T out of VAG's stable to make over 300bhp is probably less than the cost of the A45 AMG over a S3....

Considering also Audi makes the same 2.5T in the RS3 in 400bhp trim(not production yet I guess) in the Quattro concept car....where the RS3/TT-RS is at is not necessarily where the limit of that engine is...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

But there is a difference.

The engine has been taken apart and reconstructed using lightweight alloys where possible.
There is probably scope for crazy amounts of power for any turbo, including this.
In southampton there is a 540bhp turbo S2000 Honda, nothing but the diff changed.

That is an F20C unit... I'm sure your aware of those

The problem with it is it won't do a mile over 15mpg. This little merc has over 95% of its torque available from 1600rpm.
That is diesel like torque characteristics.
I'm going to guess brixworth had been mandated to make this car have next to zero lag, tree stomping torque, whilst fulfilling Eco emissions targets.

There is a reason you don't see new scoobys and Mitsubishi turbos, as in 10 years ago. Emissions and fuel consumption sadly.

[Pup]

Sedan version is the CLA.

http://www.autoblog.com/2012/04/21/merc ... sion-la-a/

That one has my attention. A bit heavy handed on the styling, but that's to be expected in a concept.

I'd definitely consider this for my next car, even though my current c-class experience isn't the best. But that's mainly down to the engine. A torquey little turbo would take care of that nicely.

[RacingManiac]

My pokey 2.0T VW right now makes 95% of the torque(albeit considerably less, 200bhp/ft-lb) at 1800rpm. With a $600 tune it adds 60bhp, 90ft-lb to that, with boost going from 12psi peak to 19psi, but the torque curve does not change in shape(just peaks higher), and I actually get the same MPG as stock(my guess is due to the leaner fuel map to run closer to stoic, at the risk of reduced margin to detonation, which the stock one protects for due to fuel grade variance, the tune spec 93 AKI octane). A stock 2.0T in the Golf R/Audi S3 can have similar gain from their stock ~260 bhp state also. Its really just how much they are willing to push to the limit and how much more they can afford to spend. I don't doubt the AMG 2.0T is probably well reinforced to take the duty of a high boost, high power road car, but their volume is unlikely to be as high as the VAG engine. And for VAG I guess the new engine in the 2.5T can see more service in more higher spec car later on than trying to beef up a 2.0T to do the same work. Also to note right now, most 2.0T from VAG are still free of the more costly engine design bits like twinscroll turbo or VGT or even variable valve-lift(VVL is available in some trim)....for VW, cost is king...

[JohnsonsEvilTwin]

Let's see what it can do first.
On paper, for a first effort at a genuine hot hatch ... This looks very enticing to me.Maybe you can tune it a little too...

[RacingManiac]

That you'll get no argument from me. The car looks very good, though probably well out of my price range....

[ESPImperium]

Its a car that has a very light-weight engine that can produce alot of power from not alot of energy.

It is F1 related as the engine was developed with new F1 tech and current and past lernings as well. It is a F1 related roadcar, posibly the first of a new generation of F1 related road cars.

Id give it another 5 to 7 years and we will all be using a car with regenerative braking with even a 40hp motor connected to the front wheels or rear wheels that gives you a 3 or 5 second acceleration boost in order to save fuel as you use more fuel in lower gears and this will save you fuel. This with small volume high power output engines that are turbo or supercharged will be in your car in the well within next decade.

[RacingManiac]

http://mercedes-benz-blog.blogspot.ch/2 ... hides.html

70lk Euro?! That is a lot of money over the RS3.....