Mercedes AMG F1 W03 (pre-launch speculation)

[Tozza Mazza]

With all the technical staff changes at MGP taking place, with Costa, Bell, Willis, 2012 is starting to show some promise for Mercedes.

They have a strong technical team, key to success, as seen at Red Bull, a seemingly good budget, due to their Mercedes factory backing, and two seemingly capable drivers, who with the right car can win races.

From this the W03 is showing real promise, even though no one knows anything about it yet!

The lower nose in 2012 may favour MGP though, as they bought out Brawn GP, who ran a low nose in '09, and worked on many low nose Ferrari cars, and ran with a nose shape similar to what will be used in 2012, in 2010.

I think Mercedes could well be the dark horse of 2012.

[marcush.]

With all the technical staff changes at MGP taking place, with Costa, Bell, Willis, 2012 is starting to show some promise for Mercedes.

They have a strong technical team, key to success, as seen at Red Bull, a seemingly good budget, due to their Mercedes factory backing, and two seemingly capable drivers, who with the right car can win races.

From this the W03 is showing real promise, even though no one knows anything about it yet!

The lower nose in 2012 may favour MGP though, as they bought out Brawn GP, who ran a low nose in '09, and worked on many low nose Ferrari cars, and ran with a nose shape similar to what will be used in 2012, in 2010.

I think Mercedes could well be the dark horse of 2012.

the impact on W03 is limited ,as the cornerpoles are driven into the ground long time now and major parts near completion these days.
Oner can hope that input can be integrated at this point but the major concept led by Bell since april this year is not going to be influenced by their arrival.

[Neno]

do you think next year mercedes car will look like 2003-2005 generation of f1 cars?! low nose, single diffuser, no EBD exaust system...or like Brawn GP car's

[Tozza Mazza]

I reckon the nose will be similar to the W01, but in some respects the design aspect will be similar to the 01-08 cars, although due to the 2009 aerodynamic changes, the system will be different.

I think Costa and Willis have arrived in time to refine the package of the W03, it's only October, there are 5 months until the first race, plenty of time for Costa to help refine, and Willis boost the aerodynamic package of the car.

Ofcourse a lot of the W03 will be set in stone by now (gearbox, suspension, engine, roll hoop and most likely radiators and fuel tank), but there is still plenty of time to make changers

I'm expecting a strong W03.

[Holm86]

With all the technical staff changes at MGP taking place, with Costa, Bell, Willis, 2012 is starting to show some promise for Mercedes.

They have a strong technical team, key to success, as seen at Red Bull, a seemingly good budget, due to their Mercedes factory backing, and two seemingly capable drivers, who with the right car can win races.

From this the W03 is showing real promise, even though no one knows anything about it yet!

The lower nose in 2012 may favour MGP though, as they bought out Brawn GP, who ran a low nose in '09, and worked on many low nose Ferrari cars, and ran with a nose shape similar to what will be used in 2012, in 2010.


.

the impact on W03 is limited ,as the cornerpoles are driven into the ground long time now and major parts near completion these days.
Oner can hope that input can be integrated at this point but the major concept led by Bell since april this year is not going to be influenced by their arrival.

Agree ... Willis and Costa wont have much to say on the 2012 ground design. Perhaps they can implement small adjustments and so on. But nothing fundamental.

Upgrades during the year will probably be influenced by them.

But for Mercedes sake i hope the design follows a new direction next year. The last two cars hasnt been any good.

I think Mercedes could well be the dark horse of 2012

[Pieoter]

I disagree, I think 5months is plenty of time to implement changes.

Mike Gascoyne joined Jordan in June of 1998 and the team improved within a very short period of time.

[Jeffsvilleusa]

Well then, Newey sure took his sweet time with Red Bull didn't he?!?!

[Neno]

Well then, Newey sure took his sweet time with Red Bull didn't he?!?!

in newey's cases was dramatic change, he signed with some red bull after he leave mclaren, wow! that was unexpected, then he form his own team of enginers, designers in couple of years. from 2006-2009 he implanted his own knowlegde in this peoples, and i think he get in 2009 right combination, very good car and shitty competition's. what you see today, in this case RB7, this is his work paid off, and now they can enjoy in "fruits of their labor".

sory for my bad english

[marcush.]

look ...this is 450people working and of those there is a good 250 Engineers ..it´s 3500parts to design and manufacture and you get an idea of what can be done in a certain timeframe.
You can of course dump all the aero appendages into the bin and start afresh or you can say the rollhoop design is crap and we go again back to a blade type-as the whole section is bonded onto the monocoque -but you have to DECIDE :what to do and what to leave as is -the time planning for W03 is done and ANY change in design will delay the date when the first car is completed.
so It´s a decision of :Is there a fundanmental flaw obvious to the people who join in October or even in December that can be erased without falling off the schedule completely?
For some reason Mercedes were already derailled with their timing with W02 -obviously they had that exhaust idea slipping by and they somehow implemented their interpretation hastily.-basic sidepod shape,anyone?, vanilla car testing ...
So I´m surte this will not happen again as it cost them a godd 20 if not more points being not ready in time(they lucked into not losing more due to the firsdt race being cancelled!).
No the main points are set and frozen .If there is a major rethink we will see a B spec later on.
Not long ago teams started the season with upgraded last years machinery -and only introduced the all new baby when returning to european venues...That´s not possible due to the new for 2012 max chassis height..?

[Byronrhys]

look ...this is 450people working and of those there is a good 250 Engineers ..it´s 3500parts to design and manufacture and you get an idea of what can be done in a certain timeframe.
You can of course dump all the aero appendages into the bin and start afresh or you can say the rollhoop design is crap and we go again back to a blade type-as the whole section is bonded onto the monocoque -but you have to DECIDE :what to do and what to leave as is -the time planning for W03 is done and ANY change in design will delay the date when the first car is completed.
so It´s a decision of :Is there a fundanmental flaw obvious to the people who join in October or even in December that can be erased without falling off the schedule completely?
For some reason Mercedes were already derailled with their timing with W02 -obviously they had that exhaust idea slipping by and they somehow implemented their interpretation hastily.-basic sidepod shape,anyone?, vanilla car testing ...
So I´m surte this will not happen again as it cost them a godd 20 if not more points being not ready in time(they lucked into not losing more due to the firsdt race being cancelled!).
No the main points are set and frozen .If there is a major rethink we will see a B spec later on.
Not long ago teams started the season with upgraded last years machinery -and only introduced the all new baby when returning to european venues...That´s not possible due to the new for 2012 max chassis height..?

2012 max chassis high is the same at 2011 - 625MM, this is because some teams wanted to carryover the chassis the nose however is going to have a max height of 550MM.

Are we going to see uglier cars next year? There is not much to be changed except
periscope exhausts but rumour has it that the nose will be lower and cars could look
like HRT F111.

WELL THERE ARE STILL WAYS OF MAKING THIS LOOK REASONABLE, BUT THIS
ISSUE WITH THE NOSE COMES ABOUT BECAUSE THE CHASSIS CAN BE UP TO
625MM HIGH AND THE NOSE ONLY 550MM HIGH. IT ORIGINATES FROM THE FIA
WANTING TO NOT HAVING THE CRASH STRUCTURE (NOSE) ABOVE THE 550MM HIGH
SIDE OF THE COCKPIT NEXT TO THE DRIVER TO REDUCE THE CHANCE OF DRIVER
INJURY. ORIGINALLY THE WHOLE CHASSIS WAS GOING TO BE LOWERED TO 550MM
HIGH, BUT TEAMS WANTED THE ABILITY TO CARRY CHASSIS OVER FROM 2011 TO
2012 SO A COMPROMISE WAS PUT FORWARD AT TWG AND ACCEPTED.

[ESPImperium]

I disagree, I think 5months is plenty of time to implement changes.

Mike Gascoyne joined Jordan in June of 1998 and the team improved within a very short period of time.

That was 1998 when things were 90% tunnel based, and now its 80% CFD based. Also the ammpunt of tech now means a 1% gain in downforce can be the diffrence wetween P9 and P6 in the comnstructors table, amd thats arround €9m if you dial in the financial aspect.

Things can get done in a short time now, but with the tech aspect, things take alot longer, more like 18 months or more to make a meaningful impact with the regs mow.

Id expect a stron g MGP W03 sto start with, but not strong enough for a race win, but strong enough to go for regular 3rd Places. Id recon that by the end of the 2012 season that Mercedes will be up with the regulars for wins, kind of lik Renault with the R28 in 2008 id expect next season to be like, 2013 will be the key season for Mercedes.

[Ferraripilot]

Agree ... Willis and Costa wont have much to say on the 2012 ground design. Perhaps they can implement small adjustments and so on. But nothing fundamental.

Upgrades during the year will probably be influenced by them.

But for Mercedes sake i hope the design follows a new direction next year. The last two cars hasnt been any good.

Willis has started already hasn't he??? It's Costa who is waiting until December 1st. That being the case, I can see Willis being somewhat helpful with things not set in stone while Costa should be brilliant in the two remaining months before testing to tweak W03 to max potential. Costa is a mechanical engineer so I would think his assistance in the suspension and cooling departments would be where he would shine.

[raymondu999]

Willis starts later this month

[Richard]

Well then, Newey sure took his sweet time with Red Bull didn't he?!?!

Newey didn't win a race with RB until the 4th year. So that'd be the W06 for Bell?

Back to topic...

The W03 will surely be a radical change from the W02's short wheel base. The W02 was a radical change from the W01. We know that most teams need to evolve a design (the DDD being a one off exception).

I hope they go for a solid conservative base and don't try anything clever, or they are in danger of a repeat of the last two years. Newey has showed how steady rigourous hard work that carries from one season to the next is the key to success. We'll not see if Merc are achieving that until the W04.

[Byronrhys]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L3BY-WeOkxQ