Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

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mzivtins
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby mzivtins » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:15 pm

gilgen wrote:
MIKEY_! wrote:Looks like exhaust coming over the monkey seat - how did that happen???


Car is stationary, so no coanda effect dragging the exhaust gasses down. The exhaust pipes point upwards, per regs., so any exhaust smoke will naturally rise.


But the exhausts are so much wider apart to the point that it would seem impossible for the exhaust to naturally find its way there... unless this is the engine heat wake collecting some heavy fuel gas as it radiates from the close centre of the car? so weird!

Can someone take a IR cam to the next gp please haha!

astracrazy
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby astracrazy » Wed Apr 25, 2012 1:38 pm

if this happens to be Button's puncture (last) pitstop. Remember the engine had problems a few laps after. Could this be just smoke coming out of the cooling hole?

Coefficient
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby Coefficient » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:18 pm

gilgen wrote:
MIKEY_! wrote:Looks like exhaust coming over the monkey seat - how did that happen???


Car is stationary, so no coanda effect dragging the exhaust gasses down. The exhaust pipes point upwards, per regs., so any exhaust smoke will naturally rise.


This is Buttons' car, note the No.3 on the end plate. I would suggest that this is the pit stop prior to his retirement at which point the exhaust was already cracked causing exhaust fumes to be present in the side pods and then exiting from the cooling outlet at the rear of the coke bottle.
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raymondu999
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby raymondu999 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:31 pm

gilgen wrote:
MIKEY_! wrote:Looks like exhaust coming over the monkey seat - how did that happen???


Car is stationary, so no coanda effect dragging the exhaust gasses down. The exhaust pipes point upwards, per regs., so any exhaust smoke will naturally rise.

I don't think Coanda is speed dependent though. Is it? Yes there would be no over-sidepod downwash of air, but Coanda would still pull at least part of the exhaust down, surely?
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aral
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby aral » Wed Apr 25, 2012 2:52 pm

raymondu999 wrote:
gilgen wrote:
MIKEY_! wrote:Looks like exhaust coming over the monkey seat - how did that happen???


Car is stationary, so no coanda effect dragging the exhaust gasses down. The exhaust pipes point upwards, per regs., so any exhaust smoke will naturally rise.

I don't think Coanda is speed dependent though. Is it? Yes there would be no over-sidepod downwash of air, but Coanda would still pull at least part of the exhaust down, surely?


Of course it is dependent on forward motion. But the exhausts point inwards and upwards, so at stop, the gasses will rise and go towards the centre line. Anyway, this is all getting away from technical matters and mads may well move this post.

Owen.C93
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby Owen.C93 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 3:22 pm

Looks like it's coming from the central radiator outlet really.
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copperkipper1
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby copperkipper1 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 5:07 pm

^That smoke isn't coming from the exhaust....

raymondu999
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby raymondu999 » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:19 pm

Yeah I remember Pup's demo. Has to be said the shaker was empty :lol:
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Forza
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby Forza » Wed Apr 25, 2012 11:30 pm

Broken exhaust manifold is good explanation why smoke is coming out of the cooling outlet. And as I noticed the smoke is blue (maybe it's just picture effect). When smoke coming out of an engine is blue that usually means that engine started to burn oil and it's finised. Jenson said DIFF broke. So ehxaust plume could overhaeat that part. Also it could melt some other part of car in this area.

F1PuertoRico
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby F1PuertoRico » Thu Apr 26, 2012 3:06 am

I think the tyres play a role on how where the exhaust flow . Working the sidepods , exhaust position and the tyres together is a possible way to direct the gases to the top of the diffuser.

Crucial_Xtreme
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby Crucial_Xtreme » Thu Apr 26, 2012 10:22 pm

MP4-27 Technical Updates + Piola video

Image

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/bild ... 05692.html

Richard
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby Richard » Fri Apr 27, 2012 9:02 am

99 posts about generic coanda effect have been moved to the generic coanda thread.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12046&view=unread#unread

aral
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby aral » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:09 pm

well done, Richard. Now, back to technical matters. Has anyone got a reason for Button running different front wing and brakes at Bahrain? He did that last year as well, towards the end of the season.

There are also reports that Button was called in before the end of the race, so as to get a FREE gearbox change, when there was nothing wrong with his gearbox.

raymondu999
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby raymondu999 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:26 pm

Button has traditionally run different brakes anyways. Brawn said that in 2009. He wants a more progressive setup that needs to warm slightly first before it starts braking. Maybe better suited too his easier, more gradual feeding of brakes.

Fwiw his car DID sound pretty sick - and they could've nicked 5th, so...i dunno.

Button ran a different front wing spec to Hamilton in 2010 Spa too... Lewis had a longer cascade and Jenson had basically an earlier version of this year's front wing, minus the r-shaped cascade. What caught me out is Button's front wing apparently generates more downforce and is less efficient in terms of L/D ratio, while Hamilton took the wing with less downforce and a better L/D ratio.

I wouldn't ever have guesed Button would use more downforce on his front wing. Maybe there is less of the front washing out when he's holding constant steering lock in a fast corner?
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ell66
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Re: Vodafone McLaren MP4-27 Mercedes

Postby ell66 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:38 pm

raymondu999 wrote:Button has traditionally run different brakes anyways. Brawn said that in 2009. He wants a more progressive setup that needs to warm slightly first before it starts braking. Maybe better suited too his easier, more gradual feeding of brakes.

Fwiw his car DID sound pretty sick - and they could've nicked 5th, so...i dunno.

Button ran a different front wing spec to Hamilton in 2010 Spa too... Lewis had a longer cascade and Jenson had basically an earlier version of this year's front wing, minus the r-shaped cascade. What caught me out is Button's front wing apparently generates more downforce and is less efficient in terms of L/D ratio, while Hamilton took the wing with less downforce and a better L/D ratio.

I wouldn't ever have guesed Button would use more downforce on his front wing. Maybe there is less of the front washing out when he's holding constant steering lock in a fast corner?


I think thats a very simplistic way of looking at it, the wings most likely have different characteristics that effect the whole car. They both struggled with oversteer in the race though.




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