McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Blob
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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About the pelican nose, all the ones I've seen in detail so far such as on the mclaren are mainly bulging out in the middle of the nose. To put it differently, the height between the bottom of the pelican and the floor is lowest in the middle.
Why could they not have a flatter pelican, with the sides being lowered aswell. Therefore creating a venturi across the whole width of the nose rather then just the middle. As for getting air around this new pelican, I would expect it to end up being a keel shape such as on the RB's nose, but much wider essentially.

trinidefender
trinidefender
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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turbof1 wrote:
dren wrote:
turbof1 wrote: It creates in conjunction with the neutral section of the mainplane a venturi tunnel, dropping pressure and improving front downforce and air extraction, sucking in more air volume that'll move to the rear.
A venturi? Look straight on, the nose is directly in front of the part behind it. To me it looks more like flow management to the under nose flow conditioners. I'm guessing they had issues with the flow joining again behind the protrusion.
Yes it'll unfortunaly block the airflow a bit. Though the nose is shaped in a such a way it'll try to keep airflow attached and draw it directly behind it.

However, the solution is no different in concept from the pelican noses we saw last year at red bull and lotus. It creates a venturi tunnel just as last year, just a bit less effective due bodywork being in front of it.

The bulge also aids in airflow attachment as you said. Without the bulge a thick boundary layer would probably build up behind the nose. But again: one advantage will not exclude the other and will still create a venturi tunnel.
A few things.

1. This bulge underneath the nose will only work in yaw. That is because in front of the bulge is the nose extension. As a result, in a straight line, the airflow passes around the nose and straight backwards and the bulge has no effect. However in a corner (yaw) there will be a flow of air going at an angle to the bulge. This will create the Venturi like shape and decrease the pressure in that region as the airflow speeds up.

By my understanding, if it works correctly there will be a minimal drag increase in a straight line yet in a corner there will be a downforce increase. If this effect is true then it may create a problem of increasing mid corner grip for long sweeping corners but may not have the immediate "bite" for turn in as the airflow under the nose will still be going in a straight line.

2. It won't "draw" any more air under the nose. The bulge is a restriction. A restriction that large most likely can't speed up the airflow enough for there to be a higher mass of air (per second) than if the restriction was simply not in place.

3. One thing it does look like the bulge might do in corners is reduce any turbulent airflow coming off of the nose extension in yaw conditions.

4. Boundary layer control and flow attachment. Flow attachment and boundary layer control are, while associated in some situations, two separate issues. Problems with flow attachment lend themselves to a thick boundary layer.

I highly doubt that the bulge reduces the boundary layer thickness. If that is true then the turbulence caused by the nose extension must have been very bad.

The two main causes of a boundary layer increasing in thickness are surface friction and turbulence along a surface. A boundary layer is simply the slowing of airflow the closer you get to a surface. Therefore if you increase the surface area and make the airflow move around and object more then it stands to reason that the boundary layer will get thicker. It may be possible that if the turbulence from the nose extension was so bad that the increase in surface area, and hence surface drag, and extra shape to move around is offset by the reduction in turbulence but to my knowledge it is unlikely.

5. To me it looks as if McLaren are sacrificing some airflow to the back of the car. On a car with the rear end grip as good as the MP4-29 it may make sense that the drivers are looking for more front end grip that can be matched at the rear. The trade off will probably be increased drag and slight lack of turn in grip. Rear end grip was never a problem as evidenced by the fact that they were constantly running the car without the suspension mushrooms even in some tracks that required a high level of DF, add this to the fact that drivers were constantly asking for more front wing and then being told that there was no more.

6. Left this point for last. I believe that this nose has something to do with next years nose regulations. They did say that all the upgrades from, I think, summer forwards were going to be relevant to the 2015 car. Following on from that train of thought that it makes sense that this nose is designed to be checking things, whether they be structural or aero, that are relevant to next season.

trinidefender
trinidefender
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Joined: 19 Apr 2013, 20:37

Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Actually, looking at the pictures again I have a sneaking suspicion is purely based to test airflow structures and structural strength for next year.

As of now I'll hazard a guess and say that the nose next year will be taller and thinner instead. Opinion may change but that's just how is see it now.

CjC
CjC
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Are they running the new wing and nose?
Just a fan's point of view

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Thunder
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Not sure about the Wing but they are running the new Nose in Quali.
turbof1 wrote: YOU SHALL NOT......STALLLLL!!!
#aerogollum

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KingHamilton01
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Nice to See McLaren still pushing and with Mercedes so far ahead they need to!
McLaren Mercedes

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Morteza
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Formula1.com
"A fool thinks himself to be wise, but a wise man knows himself to be a fool."~William Shakespeare

mclaren_mircea
mclaren_mircea
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Did Mclaren run the new nose in Qualy and Race in Austin? In the article it says only about Friday.

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mclaren111
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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At the bottom front of the side-pod there are silver "attachments". Would this be for weight distubution ??

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Also - the edge of the floor next to the Bardge Board ??

McMrocks
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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I don't think they are for weight-distribution.

-those things are far away from the car's centre line (negative effect on the car behaviour)
- those attachements are near the COG when looking from the side
- those attachements are 5cm above the reference plane (If they were weight they'd put them as low as possible, for example in the t-tray)


My guess is that their purpose is the protection of the leading edge from gravel, rubber and cars

wesley123
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Indeed, they are for protection from debris.

The audi R15 and R18's have ran aluminium front diffusers for this exact reason;
http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newsnov10.html wrote:It's been said elsewhere that Audi began using aluminum front diffusers on the R15 and that this practice had been continued on the R18. The reasoning was given that as a race wore on, the carbon diffusers were deteriorating, getting damaged, and front aero performance subsequently dropped off.
"Bite my shiny metal ass" - Bender

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Pierce89
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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mclaren111 wrote:http://media.cdn.mclaren.com/images/gal ... GP-001.jpg

At the bottom front of the side-pod there are silver "attachments". Would this be for weight distubution ??

http://media.cdn.mclaren.com/images/gal ... GP-008.jpg

Also - the edge of the floor next to the Bardge Board ??
These pieces are made from machined aluminum so they can have very precise control over very small details. F1 aero these days is about micro geometry changes rather than macro geometry changes. That's why some "changes" are vrtually impossible to spot.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

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Pierce89
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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mikeerfol wrote:I believe the new front wing (designed by Prodromou) will make it's debut at Abu Dhabi.
In modern f1, it would be quite unique, if a front wing is the work of 1 man.
“To be able to actually make something is awfully nice”
Bruce McLaren on building his first McLaren racecars, 1970

“I've got to be careful what I say, but possibly to probably Juan would have had a bigger go”
Sir Frank Williams after the 2003 Canadian GP, where Ralf hesitated to pass brother M. Schumacher

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mikeerfol
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Yeah i should rephrase that, "designed with the help of Prodromou"

:P

stefan_
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Re: McLaren MP4-29 Mercedes

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Brazil 2014 - Thursday (06.11.2014)

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"...and there, very much in flames, is Jacques Laffite's Ligier. That's obviously a turbo blaze, and of course, Laffite will be able to see that conflagration in his mirrors... he is coolly parking the car somewhere safe." Murray Walker, San Marino 1985