Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
giantfan10
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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Moose wrote:
giantfan10 wrote:
Fer.Fan wrote:[imhttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4d76MsZ1AYg/VRaS8LhaJFI/AAAAAAAAS30/7Raq2rQzQgA/s1600/dcd1528ma45.jpgg][/http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5pHIK7CsP_c/V ... 489.jpgimg]

Compare Mercedes and Ferrari FW.
Ferraris looks more simple. During qualify Mercedes had massive advantage in mid sector because they have a more powerful pu and can run more downforce with less drag penalty.
FIXED
Who says they have a more powerful PU? What evidence do you have for that?
lol you have got to be kidding me

Moose
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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giantfan10 wrote:lol you have got to be kidding me
This seems to be the response every time I ask this question. "No evidence, I just like regurgitating 'common knowledge'".

Go and look for some actual evidence. We have no data at all on how powerful the 2015 PUs are, and we certainly do not know that the Mercedes is more powerful than the Ferrari.

giantfan10
giantfan10
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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NoDivergence wrote:
giantfan10 wrote:
Fer.Fan wrote:[imhttp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4d76MsZ1AYg/VRaS8LhaJFI/AAAAAAAAS30/7Raq2rQzQgA/s1600/dcd1528ma45.jpgg][/http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-5pHIK7CsP_c/V ... 489.jpgimg]

Compare Mercedes and Ferrari FW.
Ferraris looks more simple. During qualify Mercedes had massive advantage in mid sector because they have a more powerful pu and can run more downforce with less drag penalty.
FIXED
Just stop. They chose different aero philosophies. Has nothing to do with PU
so let me take a wild guess its the mercedes super duper doube secret chassis and aero that has them out front right?

Moose
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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giantfan10 wrote:so let me take a wild guess its the mercedes super duper doube secret chassis and aero that has them out front right?
Why does that seem unreasonable to you? RedBull had a similar advantage over the field for several years due to super duper double secret chassis and aero.

giantfan10
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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Moose wrote:
giantfan10 wrote:lol you have got to be kidding me
This seems to be the response every time I ask this question. "No evidence, I just like regurgitating 'common knowledge'".

Go and look for some actual evidence. We have no data at all on how powerful the 2015 PUs are, and we certainly do not know that the Mercedes is more powerful than the Ferrari.
ok so every team principle and every journalist in the F1 world is lying... when mercedes admits to their pu being more powerful they are lying too.....is it really necassary to do this song and dance to convince the masses that mercedes discovered some secret downforce?....
look i'm done with this topic...

giantfan10
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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Moose wrote:
giantfan10 wrote:so let me take a wild guess its the mercedes super duper doube secret chassis and aero that has them out front right?
Why does that seem unreasonable to you? RedBull had a similar advantage over the field for several years due to super duper double secret chassis and aero.
red bull had that advantage due to having the best integration of the exhaust blown diffuser and engine mapping software... they didnt add 3 winglets and find some secret downforce like some of you seem to think.....uuugh i said i was done lol

Jano11
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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Moose wrote:
giantfan10 wrote:lol you have got to be kidding me
This seems to be the response every time I ask this question. "No evidence, I just like regurgitating 'common knowledge'".

Go and look for some actual evidence. We have no data at all on how powerful the 2015 PUs are, and we certainly do not know that the Mercedes is more powerful than the Ferrari.
In his defense your question was really childish. Everyone and their dog/cat/mouse including a bunch of F1 technical directors stated what the situation is.
Asking for more proof, when you know that no one can give you the actual numbers, is just flame baiting.

Moose
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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giantfan10 wrote:ok so every team principle and every journalist in the F1 world is lying...
Which team principal or F1 journalist has been running around yelling zomg, Mercedes' power unit is better than everyone else's, that's the only reason they have a lead.

In fact, most team principals and F1 journalists have asserted that they think Mercedes has a pretty incredible chassis and aero package, and a very small lead over ferrari on the PU.

The only team principal who's being doing the running around and yelling is christian horner, and he's not been yelling "merc's is better than everyone's", he's being yelling "holy --- the renault sucks".
when mercedes admits to their pu being more powerful they are lying too
When did Mercedes assert that?
is it really necassary to do this song and dance to convince the masses that mercedes discovered some secret downforce?
Again, what makes you think that discovering secret downforce requires a song and dance? Discovering secret downforce is the job of the engineers on these teams. There's lots of evidence that every so often one team does a particularly good job of finding it.
Everyone and their dog/cat/mouse including a bunch of F1 technical directors stated what the situation is.
Yes, notably, the Ferrari Technical Director commented that he though that the advantage was mostly in the chassis and aero, but a little bit an engine advantage.

giantfan10
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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look here is my view on this then i'm really done.....mercedes is no master of aero... they became dominant when the Pu rules changed in 2014 and they had the best pu... in 2015 they became smarter and took a page from red bull... top speed means next to nothing in formula one ... ists your cornering speed that counts.... how did mercedes achieve this in 2015 you ask? IN MY OPINION the simplest and cheapest way to accomplish this when you have an aobvious power advantage is just to simply run more downforce to that point that produces faster lap times for you due to cornering speeds without loosing too much speed on the straights... the speed traps and sector times back up my opinion.
where was this super duper mercedes aero in the very recent past?....mercedes suddenly discovered a trick that other teams cant figure out? i think not

Moose
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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giantfan10 wrote:look here is my view on this then i'm really done.....mercedes is no master of aero...
Again, who says?
they became dominant when the Pu rules changed in 2014 and they had the best pu...
Uhhh, no. They had the fastest car in 2013, it just used the tires pretty heavily.
in 2015 they became smarter and took a page from red bull... top speed means next to nothing in formula one ... ists your cornering speed that counts.... how did mercedes achieve this in 2015 you ask? IN MY OPINION the simplest and cheapest way to accomplish this when you have an aobvious power advantage is just to simply run more downforce to that point that produces faster lap times for you due to cornering speeds without loosing too much speed on the straights...
Sure, there's no doubt that Mercedes have bolted on a higher drag package than last year, that would suggest that they're getting advantage somewhere else, and that's certainly likely to be downforce.

However... Your assertion was that what allowed them to do that was having a better PU. That's where we disagree.

Instead, what allows them to do that is simply having a different aero philosophy from Ferrari. Mercedes have found that their ideal L/D is in the higher drag range than Ferrari's ideal L/D. Because of that, they're setting up the car for reletavily high drag. Their PU is clearly not what is allowing them to do that, if it was, they would have maintained their high straight line speeds and gained downforce. But they've not, they have severely compromised their straight line speed in order to gain this downforce.
where was this super duper mercedes aero in the very recent past?....mercedes suddenly discovered a trick that other teams cant figure out? i think not
Well, as I said - in 2013, they had the fastest car. They had the best aero package on the grid.

What they didn't have in 2013 was great mechanical grip, and that severely compromised that season.

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godlameroso
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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ME4ME wrote:
PlatinumZealot wrote:Typical eningeer playing things down before job is done. Data so far showing It is mostly power delivery and tyre use. the aero efficiency is up there..
Data shows Ferrari are actually slower in sector 2 (FP3, Malaysia) then Mercedes, Williams and Redbull.
Driveability seems great, especially looking at the last corner where Ferrari are the smoothest, and tyre usage seems spot-on as well. So no, Ferrari's aero isn't up to Mercedes level yet.
Sector two has the most difficult turn in and braking zones of the whole lap! The first turn is a slow off camber uphill, which sets up the fast stuff. It doesn't do you any good taking that part quickly if you're already going slow coming off that 1st turn. Then a big braking zone with another uphill off camber area where steering angle and throttle have to be measured perfectly and approaches another tricky braking zone. Sector 3 is from right before the fast left hander to the decreasing radius right, there it's all braking stability and engine power.

I think Mercedes advantage isn't aero, but in the way that car enters and exits turns, they just seem more hooked up from low to medium speed, which not coincidentally are the most featured turns in the entire calendar. It's not just power delivery, but also stability and ability to trail brake with less understeer than everyone else.
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PlatinumZealot
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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As far as aerodynamics go this set of regulations have very restricted aerodynamics. If the engines were V8 with less scope of tuning all the cars would run very close. It is not inconveivable that the Aero on the SF15-T is just as good as any other car. The aerodynamics is only one system of many. Only the naive would dumb things down to only "engine and aero" in these set of regs.
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munudeges
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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The elephant in the room here of course is that when you have a much better engine you can run more wing angle and give yourself more downforce, which is what Mercedes are doing and Ferrari are running less of. :wink:

markp
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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Why are Ferrari closer to Merc here? The car looks the same as Australia. Know one has picked up on anything looking different, not even a mistaken shadow to take a few pages of the thread up. The engine is the same hardware wise as no news more tokens spent. Were they running on lesser settings last time to look through the data after a full competitive outing then just turned it up. Button on Sky said its as simple as turning a switch on the wheel for McLaren. The only other thing is refining the engine mappings. Does the car appear to be putting the power down smoother this weekend?

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godlameroso
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Re: Scuderia Ferrari SF15-T

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PlatinumZealot wrote:As far as aerodynamics go this set of regulations have very restricted aerodynamics. If the engines were V8 with less scope of tuning all the cars would run very close. It is not inconveivable that the Aero on the SF15-T is just as good as any other car. The aerodynamics is only one system of many. Only the naive would dumb things down to only "engine and aero" in these set of regs.
Exactly my point, carrying speed through the apex isn't what these cars are good at, it's the entry and exit. With a better entry you gain on the exit as you can place the car in such a way as to minimize slip angle on the exit. Let's say last year vs Williams, Ferrari was losing two tenths on entry, gaining 3 tenths through the apex, and losing two tenths on exit and an extra tenth down the straight. The net result was that on average the Williams had a .2 second/lap advantage over Ferrari, more on stop and go tracks like Red Bull ring, and less on tracks with lots of turns that require you to carry momentum like Hungary.
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